One Piece Weekly Chapter Discussion

Superbuu3 wrote:

Doflamingo has conquerors will though.  That alone makes him top tier.  

 
 
Again, I disagree.  Even Pre-TS Luffy had Conqueror's and he was nowhere near top level.  Granted he couldn't control it, but post-TS I still don't think Luffy is top-tier.  He will be, sure, but not yet.  Conqueror's is simply a sign of enormous willpower and ambition, having it alone doesn't make you top-tier.
 
Besides, we know Doflamingo isn't top-tier himself; he walked away from a possible fight with Kuzan and was visibly shaken by what little he saw of Fujitora's power.
 

Quote :

He also had a better showing in the war arc than Mihawk, remember he didn't even get a scratch on him and thats something only he and Boa managed.  It could be argued Mihawk didn't get scratched either but he certainly was sseen to be struggling with likes of whitebeards crew.

 
 
Mihawk wasn't marked either, but yes, he was being held up by Vista.  Boa though, doesn't really count because she spent almost the entire battle attacking mooks or Pacifista, the latter of whom weren't fighting back.  The only exception was fighting Smoker, who clearly wasn't in her league.
 

Quote :

I really doubt that the like of the division commanders haven't got high level haki.

 
 
I don't doubt they've got high-level haki, it's just that there's a difference between high-level and top-tier.
 

Quote :

You also need to keep in mind the Yonkou is of equal power as the shichubukai and admirals.

 
 
I'm not sure what your point is here?
 
Are you saying each Yonkou are equally as strong as each Shichi or Admiral?  Or are you saying that only four Yonkou balance out seven Shichi and four Admirals?
 

Quote :

Another point is that Whitebeards army alone was enough to taken on the power of the full marines.  

 
 
That army alone was enough?  No, it wasn't enough.  The Whitebeard pirates were facing imminent defeat when the war ended.
 

Quote :

If the yonkou worked together they would wreck the marines.

 
 
But they won't because they're rivals and the WG try to prevent them form doing so.  Remember Sengoku trying to prevent Whitebeard and Shanks meeting face to face to discuss terms?
 

Quote :

We also have no real point of reference for how strong whitebeard was compard to his prime.  Even in a considerably weakened state where he couldn't sense attacks like normal or use his conquerors will he was still wrecking everything on his own.

 
 
It's not much, no, but that still counts as our reference, surely?  Whitebeard was able to go toe-to-toe with anybody, was able to take hits no one else could and we're still told he could have done more in his prime. 
 

Quote :

If the crews were something the marines would deal with as soon as some of the pirates ere on a trip away from a yonkou they'd just annhilate the weak ones.

 
 
Presumably the stronger members of a Yonkou fleet do have some duty to protect the weaker crews.
 

Quote :

Also another point of reference a newbie in shanks crew had a bounty just shy of a supernova.  Like thats a rookie on his ship, can you imagine the experience and power that people in his crew have gone through

 
 
Sanji's bounty is still 77million.  Bounty doesn't necessarily all that much, but yes, I'd expect a lot of heavy hitters in a yonkou crew.
 

Quote :

Crocodile is a strange one he still stood up to some strong guys so I don't think there's any reasaon to believe he's not stronger then his first showing.  Him losing the will to fight played a large part in that fight against luffy don't forget he beat luffy twice and the third fight loss seemed plot induced.

 
 
Given his experience, Croc should have been way stronger than he was.  He had some good showings in the war, yet there's no reason at all for him to have lost to Luffy.

Jesus, look at the size of that post. This is exactly why I stopped debating on dragonball.

Doflamingo has already trained his haki he used it at will.  I don't doubt he could beat Kuzan in a fight.  Thats not to say he would get out uninjured and I honestly don't see a reason why anyone would participate in a fight that they'd get injured in.  We'll see what doflamingo has to offer in the next few chapters so its kinda pointless to debate right now when we'll have an answer real soon.

Hancock is tough. I don't think there's any doubt she wrecked a pacifista with one kick, that is no easy feat.  Given that as a reference point I don't think anyone would risk fighting her needlessly.

Using terms like top tier is pretty pointless.  We have literally no frame of refernce to measure any of the strong guys haki.  Whitebeard in old age could've take all 3 admirals, in his prime he could've done god knows what.  We don't know who he was stronger than in his own crew or compared to the people in the new world.  I mean we don't even know how he compares to Shanks.

I was saying the yonkou balance out admirals + shichibukai.

Whitebeard pirates were on the ropes due to a strategy, the attacking force was at a disadvantage from the start as they have to fight on the enemies battlefield who were well aware tehy were coming.  Intelligence matters a lot in one piece, this has been shown a few times.  Gecko Moria highlighted this.

OK i reply to your comments about Yonkou combining that is my exact point.  You have implied that division commanders aren't top tier, now if admirals and shichubukai are, how would only Shanks and Whitebeard alone be that menacing if there force behind them wasn't much.  It suggests that a single Yonkou in itself is enough of a threat to admirals + shichubukai.  There's no real evidence, but i think its one of the best bits of evidence to indicate just how tough the crew members on strong crews are.

Well if you agree Whitebeard was weaker than in his prime you can see that if he is that much of a force to be reckoned with you can only imagine what other Yonkou might be capable of.

Bounty is a slight reference, its not a great one, but the fact is once you hit around 100 million you have to be putting up a good fight because bounty hunters will come after you for sure and the marines will take notice of you.  Especially if you survived in the New World.  Don't forget numerous times its been said forget what you know because the New World is a completely different league.  Remember everyone in the New World is aware of Haki this is something that almost no one had a clue about in the first half of the grand line.  That in itself should make you realise all the strong guys are in this area.  The number of haki users will sky rocket as well as the stronger devil fruits.

Oh yeah and BTW I still standby the fact Marco's devil fruit is unbelievably hax.  If he hadn't been taken out with kairouseki, he could've gone toe to toe with anyone at marineford.  The fact Shanks wanted him in his crew says a lot to.  Although I do wonder what happened to the whitebeard pirates seeing as Blackbeard apparently took a seat.  Its annoying Blackbeard so far has had a pathetic showing it annoys me we have to just assume he's grown in strength.

Honestly I found Dragonball debates stupid and pointless there wasn't much useful material to work with and most of the comments were straight up lies and people assuming they were stronger than people they weren't.

Kaio wrote:

Croc is top tier. Luffy is a cheater.

It was just complete PIS that Crocodile didn't just use the Sables that he used to destroy a town to annihilate Luffy.

Superbuu3 wrote:

Doflamingo has already trained his haki he used it at will.  I don't doubt he could beat Kuzan in a fight.  Thats not to say he would get out uninjured and I honestly don't see a reason why anyone would participate in a fight that they'd get injured in.  We'll see what doflamingo has to offer in the next few chapters so its kinda pointless to debate right now when we'll have an answer real soon.

I disagree, I don't think he could have come close to beating Kuzan, but as you say, we'll soon see.

Quote :

Hancock is tough. I don't think there's any doubt she wrecked a pacifista with one kick, that is no easy feat.  Given that as a reference point I don't think anyone would risk fighting her needlessly.

Sanji did the same thing to a pacifista post TS, and the ones during at Marineford weren't trying to hurt Hancock. It's a relatively impressive strength feat, but certainly no indicator of her true power.

The rest I pretty much agree with, actually.

So on which day of the week does each new chapter generally get uploaded?

Wednesday

SimianWonder wrote:

Quote :

Hancock is tough. I don't think there's any doubt she wrecked a pacifista with one kick, that is no easy feat.  Given that as a reference point I don't think anyone would risk fighting her needlessly.

Sanji did the same thing to a pacifista post TS, and the ones during at Marineford weren't trying to hurt Hancock.  It's a relatively impressive strength feat, but certainly no indicator of her true power.

The rest I pretty much agree with, actually.

I think PTS Sanji is a lot closer to Zoro than he was before his two years training there's nothing to really base this off of yet, but they seem to really want to seperate the top three from the rest of the crew. Whereas previously there were people debating how close Frankie/Brooke were to him, I've even heard people comment on Robin...

Its also hard to use that as an example. I mean I know this isn't really a valid argument, but just like how Crocodile just suddenly ended up being shit against Luffy. Boa taking out a Pacifista effortlessly, at that point seemed to be one of the most impressive feats of combat we'd seen, considering how much damage they took. The PTS thing might've just been there to make you think oh wow look they've grown. Also it just shows what they are capable of and not how far beyond that they are. I doubt Sanji could go toe to toe with Hancock even if he was hitting ladies.

BTW I was wondering if Crocodile's secret was him being gay or previously a woman. Considering Ivankov was threatening to reveal his secret which seemed to really bother him. Maybe he hit on Ivankov when he was looking like a lady...

Here's a pre timeskip panel. I originally thought blacbeard was doing this, espeically when it was announced a Supernova was captured obviously that turned out to be Jewelry bonney. Then I considered is this something connected to Fujitora.

It could be a grand line anomaly, but as I suspect Fujitora is controlling gravity or blackholes this fits in with my theory.

See what you think:

Spoiler:

Superbuu3 wrote:

I think PTS Sanji is a lot closer to Zoro than he was before his two years training there's nothing to really base this off of yet, but they seem to really want to seperate the top three from the rest of the crew.  Whereas previously there were people debating how close Frankie/Brooke were to him, I've even heard people comment on Robin...  

We've not yet seen post-TS Zoro, Sanji or even Luffy get completely serious yet - though Sanji looked semi-serious against Vergo - so it's difficult to draw comparisons against each other. Personally, I'd expect the ranking to be broadly similar to pre-TS, in that Luffy is the strongest, with Zoro not too far behind him, and Sanji again not too far behind that. The Monster trio are clearly a step above the rest of the crew now, Franky is strong but has no speed feats to speak of, Brooke is the opposite.

Quote :

Its also hard to use that as an example.  I mean I know this isn't really a valid argument, but just like how Crocodile just suddenly ended up being shit against Luffy.  Boa taking out a Pacifista effortlessly, at that point seemed to be one of the most impressive feats of combat we'd seen, considering how much damage they took.  The PTS thing might've just been there to make you think oh wow look they've grown.  

Without any doubt, that's exactly what it was showing; all three of the trio are now capable of one-shotting a Pacifista.

Quote :

Also it just shows what they are capable of and not how far beyond that they are.  I doubt Sanji could go toe to toe with Hancock even if he was hitting ladies.

Sanji wouldn't last a second against Boa, she's probably the worst match up possible for him!

Quote :

BTW I was wondering if Crocodile's secret was him being gay or previously a woman.  Considering Ivankov was threatening to reveal his secret which seemed to really bother him.  Maybe he hit on Ivankov when he was looking like a lady...

I've seen a fair bit of speculation that Croc was once a woman, but I really don't see it happening. It'd be almost too obvious.

Hancock also has Conqueror's Haki, and apparently they can be put into punches and kicks like Armament Haki. Unless the recent fight between Chinjao and Luffy was a mistranslation. Which is completely possible considering their arms looked like Armament Haki.

Spoiler:

Oda has to make better use of CH anyway, considering it does fuck all to any high level fighter.

I'm pretty sure that was just referring to the fact that two people with Conqueror's were fighting each other, it wouldn't be something you see every day.

Neo wrote:

I'm pretty sure that was just referring to the fact that two people with Conqueror's were fighting each other, it wouldn't be something you see every day.

That makes sense. That's Diamante who said that, so I guess he realized it was Luffy in there, since Doflamingo knows that he's there.

Superbuu3 wrote:

Here's a pre timeskip panel.  I originally thought blacbeard was doing this, espeically when it was announced a Supernova was captured obviously that turned out to be Jewelry bonney.  Then I considered is this something connected to Fujitora.

It could be a grand line anomaly, but as I suspect Fujitora is controlling gravity or blackholes this fits in with my theory.

I don't see it being either Fujitora or Blackbeard; it looks more like a giant ship hovering over them, more likely something else we've not yet seen.

Speaking of mysterious phenomena, what do people thing the gigantic shadows were in the Florian Triangle?

Spoiler:

That’s just plain freaky. Especially considering its scale; Thriller Bark is a ship that is as large as an island and it is utterly dwarfed by the shadows. If that entity is a living thing (and the eye gleam sees to suggest that it is, and the narration suggests that it is the reason for the disappearances in the Florian Triangle), then it are by far the largest creature to appear in the series.

SimianWonder wrote:

Superbuu3 wrote:

Here's a pre timeskip panel.  I originally thought blacbeard was doing this, espeically when it was announced a Supernova was captured obviously that turned out to be Jewelry bonney.  Then I considered is this something connected to Fujitora.

It could be a grand line anomaly, but as I suspect Fujitora is controlling gravity or blackholes this fits in with my theory.

I don't see it being either Fujitora or Blackbeard; it looks more like a giant ship hovering over them, more likely something else we've not yet seen.  

Casa wrote:

Speaking of mysterious phenomena, what do people thing the gigantic shadows were in the Florian Triangle?

Spoiler:

That’s just plain freaky. Especially considering its scale; Thriller Bark is a ship that is as large as an island and it is utterly dwarfed by the shadows. If that entity is a living thing (and the eye gleam sees to suggest that it is, and the narration suggests that it is the reason for the disappearances in the Florian Triangle), then it are by far the largest creature to appear in the series.

Default response to mystery: It's Sabo

Sabo's dead.

As far as I'm concerned if you don't see a corpse it doesn't count. Loads of characters have 'died' only to show up again later.

Sabo is dead.

You're dead.

I just the fucking stupid trope of "Oh hey this character actually wasn't dead but we stated they were dead in a flashback and blah blah blah." It's fucking stupid and ruins any sort of impact that past event had because the character actually was just offscreen training and becoming super powerful enough to handle the hero because they've got to be the same level so they can fight and more shonen tropes, but Luffy wins anyways because he's Luffy.

Baal wrote:

I just the fucking stupid trope of "Oh hey this character actually wasn't dead but we stated they were dead in a flashback and blah blah blah." It's fucking stupid and ruins any sort of impact that past event had because the character actually was just offscreen training and becoming super powerful enough to handle the hero because they've got to be the same level so they can fight and more shonen tropes, but Luffy wins anyways because he's Luffy.

That's all well and good but Sabo isn't dead and Oda blatantly telegraphed it.

Was it with the hat in the ocean? I completely forgot most of that storyline, but I'm entirely sure there's something obvious I'm forgetting.

A fist rises from the water with the words "You'll pay for this, nobles," appearing in a faded speech bubble.

There's also the Sake and three cups left on Ace's grave.

Oh right, how could I forget? I remember like a million people speculating on it back when it happened.