You know who the worst character is?

XmasimianWonder wrote:

The Professor wrote:

We are talking about Buu saga Gohan yes?

Yes.

The difference here is that Cell Saga Gohan was just a kid, he's only nine years old. In the end, he did what he was supposed to, he killed Cell. Buu saga Gohan though, he's much older, and makes the exact same mistake, in not finishing an opponent when he should have.

That's why Ultimate Gohan isn't all he's cracked up to be, same with SSJ2 kid Gohan. But Buu saga Gohan in general is fine, pretty much how I'd expect to Gohan to grow up. A nerd, but a nerd who knows when to fight. Just like he always was (after he got used to fighting anyway).

Quote :

in terms of he did a vegeta in underestimating his opponent

All the heroes do that at some point, it's not exclusively a trait of Vegeta's.

i dunno why people give gohan shit for his buu fight
goku would've done the same

Raziel wrote:

XmasimianWonder wrote:

Raziel wrote:

in what respect

after the ssj2 power up he thinks he's so strong he can handle it
he screws up and them cries

Vegeta doesn't really care about anyone else, at least initially, whereas it's Gohan's true nature, openly caring, that enables him to reach SSJ2 in the 1st place. Also, Gohan eventually succeeds, where Vegeta's just a jobber who never beats a major bad guy.

i think nonny was referring to after he had turned ssj2

in terms of he did a vegeta in underestimating his opponent

Exactly. And then when his opponent gets the upper-hand he just gives up. Buu saga Gohan wouldn't have done that. Hell, Freeza saga Gohan wouldn't have done that. But for some reason Gohan isn't Gohan during the cell games.

XmasimianWonder wrote:

Quote :

in terms of he did a vegeta in underestimating his opponent

All the heroes do that at some point, it's not exclusively a trait of Vegeta's.

who else got underestimated an opponent and got wtf pwned?

goku, trunks, tien, krillin, picollo
none of those guys did

Raziel wrote:

i dunno why people give gohan shit for his buu fight
goku would've done the same

Because it ended up costing him. If he'd been all cocky and fucked up but actually beat Buu in the end, no one would care. Same for Vegeta.

The Professor wrote:

Raziel wrote:

i dunno why people give gohan shit for his buu fight
goku would've done the same

Because it ended up costing him. If he'd been all cocky and fucked up but actually beat Buu in the end, no one would care. Same for Vegeta.

but like i said goku would've done exactly the same
i don't think iuts a flaw in gohan at all

Yeah, but Goku ended up winning. Goku was stupid to get rid of the potaras. But he won in the end anyway, so who cares?

Raziel wrote:

who else got underestimated an opponent and got wtf pwned?

goku, trunks, tien, krillin, picollo
none of those guys did

Goku and Piccolo got their asses handed to them by Raditz, and later they both underestimated Freeza, and were soundly beaten. Trunks got owned hard by #17 and #18, both present and future variants, and also made a mockery of himself against a massively suppresed Peret Cell, while Ten and Krillin get plenty of beatings throughout the series, as they're never strong enough to hold a real advantage.

XmasimianWonder wrote:

Raziel wrote:

who else got underestimated an opponent and got wtf pwned?

goku, trunks, tien, krillin, picollo
none of those guys did

Goku and Piccolo got their asses handed to them by Raditz, and later they both underestimated Freeza, and were soundly beaten. Trunks got owned hard by #17 and #18, both present and future variants, and also made a mockery of himself against a massively suppresed Peret Cell, while Ten and Krillin get plenty of beatings throughout the series, as they're never strong enough to hold a real advantage.

But when in any of those instances did they underestimate their opponents. None. They just weren't strong enough to beat them.

Well, alright, Trunks vs Cell I've give you.

The Professor wrote:

But when in any of those instances did they underestimate their opponents. None. They just weren't strong enough to beat them.

Piccolo vs Freeza is an obvious one; Piccolo thought he had obtained "Ultimate power!", and still got beaten soundly.

XmasimianWonder wrote:

The Professor wrote:

But when in any of those instances did they underestimate their opponents. None. They just weren't strong enough to beat them.

Piccolo vs Freeza is an obvious one; Piccolo thought he had obtained "Ultimate power!", and still got beaten soundly.

in answer to that did picollo realise frieza had transformations?
if he didn;t you can hardly blame him

Raziel wrote:

in answer to that did picollo realise frieza had transformations?
if he didn;t you can hardly blame him

No, he didn't, but he still underestimated Freeza. He thought that he himself had the upper hand the whole time, and even after Freeza did transform, Piccolo thought that his speed would be enough to win. He was badly wrong - he underestimated Freeza, no debate about it.

Fair enough. But if I'd said "SSJ2 kid Gohan is just Piccolo", would you have known what I meant?

The Professor wrote:

XmasimianWonder wrote:

Raziel wrote:

who else got underestimated an opponent and got wtf pwned?

goku, trunks, tien, krillin, picollo
none of those guys did

Goku and Piccolo got their asses handed to them by Raditz, and later they both underestimated Freeza, and were soundly beaten. Trunks got owned hard by #17 and #18, both present and future variants, and also made a mockery of himself against a massively suppresed Peret Cell, while Ten and Krillin get plenty of beatings throughout the series, as they're never strong enough to hold a real advantage.

But when in any of those instances did they underestimate their opponents. None. They just weren't strong enough to beat them.

Well, alright, Trunks vs Cell I've give you.

wasn't that more overestimating himself
he seemed well aware of the danger

The Professor wrote:

Fair enough. But if I'd said "SSJ2 kid Gohan is just Piccolo", would you have known what I meant?

A fair point, well made.

Raziel wrote:

The Professor wrote:

XmasimianWonder wrote:

Raziel wrote:

who else got underestimated an opponent and got wtf pwned?

goku, trunks, tien, krillin, picollo
none of those guys did

Goku and Piccolo got their asses handed to them by Raditz, and later they both underestimated Freeza, and were soundly beaten. Trunks got owned hard by #17 and #18, both present and future variants, and also made a mockery of himself against a massively suppresed Peret Cell, while Ten and Krillin get plenty of beatings throughout the series, as they're never strong enough to hold a real advantage.

But when in any of those instances did they underestimate their opponents. None. They just weren't strong enough to beat them.

Well, alright, Trunks vs Cell I've give you.

wasn't that more overestimating himself
he seemed well aware of the danger

It was more not knowing the weaknesses of the form he was using. But he knew how strong he would be, and he thought that would be enough to beat Cell. Even if he lost no speed at all Cell would have kicked his ass. Nobody actually knew how strong Cell was.

The Professor wrote:

Yeah, but Goku ended up winning. Goku was stupid to get rid of the potaras. But he won in the end anyway, so who cares?

i still think goku's an idiot
but anyway my point being unlike a lot of other moments being stupidity down to a single characters own personality traits
gohan didn't do anything particularly that was typical of him to cost everyone

Raziel wrote:

The Professor wrote:

Yeah, but Goku ended up winning. Goku was stupid to get rid of the potaras. But he won in the end anyway, so who cares?

i still think goku's an idiot
but anyway my point being unlike a lot of other moments being stupidity down to a single characters own personality traits
gohan didn't do anything particularly that was typical of him to cost everyone

Well I suppose you could say it is typical of him to get cocky when he has a massive advantage.

But really his mistake wasn't not killing Buu as soon as he saw him. He got in a few hits and Buu blew himself up. Not much you can do there, Buu had it planned since before the fight started. His mistake was stepping back and letting Gotenks have another go. Not that he could have known what'd happen, but it seems a irresponsible of him.

Anyway, the point is, overall, Buu saga Gohan better than Cell games Gohan. Same for Trunks.

The Professor wrote:

Raziel wrote:

The Professor wrote:

XmasimianWonder wrote:

Raziel wrote:

who else got underestimated an opponent and got wtf pwned?

goku, trunks, tien, krillin, picollo
none of those guys did

Goku and Piccolo got their asses handed to them by Raditz, and later they both underestimated Freeza, and were soundly beaten. Trunks got owned hard by #17 and #18, both present and future variants, and also made a mockery of himself against a massively suppresed Peret Cell, while Ten and Krillin get plenty of beatings throughout the series, as they're never strong enough to hold a real advantage.

But when in any of those instances did they underestimate their opponents. None. They just weren't strong enough to beat them.

Well, alright, Trunks vs Cell I've give you.

wasn't that more overestimating himself
he seemed well aware of the danger

It was more not knowing the weaknesses of the form he was using. But he knew how strong he would be, and he thought that would be enough to beat Cell. Even if he lost no speed at all Cell would have kicked his ass. Nobody actually knew how strong Cell was.

his power level was greater then whatever version of cell he was fighting
even cell admitted that
but we all know cell was suppressing, but you can't blame trunks for not being used to fighting people who suppress there ki
he only fought the androids

The Professor wrote:

Raziel wrote:

The Professor wrote:

Yeah, but Goku ended up winning. Goku was stupid to get rid of the potaras. But he won in the end anyway, so who cares?

i still think goku's an idiot
but anyway my point being unlike a lot of other moments being stupidity down to a single characters own personality traits
gohan didn't do anything particularly that was typical of him to cost everyone

Well I suppose you could say it is typical of him to get cocky when he has a massive advantage.

But really his mistake wasn't not killing Buu as soon as he saw him. He got in a few hits and Buu blew himself up. Not much you can do there, Buu had it planned since before the fight started. His mistake was stepping back and letting Gotenks have another go. Not that he could have known what'd happen, but it seems a irresponsible of him.

Anyway, the point is, overall, Buu saga Gohan better than Cell games Gohan. Same for Trunks.

yeah in retrospect cell games gohan is semming dumber and dumber

Not "blaming" trunks as such, but he did think Cell was weaker than he actually was.

And it's not about Gohan being dumb or anything. He just wasn't in character. His attitude changed for the Cell games, just to have a more dramatic transformation and make him seem more arrogant after said transformation. And then when he was on the losing end, HE GAVE UP. Cell told him he was going to destroy the Earth, and Gohan said "Fine, go ahead. I can't stop you." Goku had to talk him into defending the planet, AGAIN.

Now I give you the awesomest character EVA!