Why are people acting like the online pass is a bad thing?

Neo wrote:

If people were "ones who would've bought it on day 1", they'd have bought it on day 1. You need to look at why people didn't so you can offer a better service and possibly change their future decisions, not focus on fucking up their day because of it.

It's because some people are cheap and will get something for free if they can. I really doubt there's anything that would make those people actuall buy the game unless piracy was somehow impossible.

I mean, how many people who now pirate for the PS3 do you think just didn't buy PS3 games beforehand? Because I would bet it's a smaller percantage than those who used to be paying customers but now pirate games just because they can.

Neo wrote:

If people were "ones who would've bought it on day 1", they'd have bought it on day 1.

not necessarily, I'll give you an example from my own life... I really wanted an Ipod when it first came out, but guess what, when it finally came out, I didn't have the money to spend on it, or I couldn't afford to spend the money on it, so I couldn't buy it on day 1... finally I ended up buying one from a friend, who got a new one and didn't need the older one anymore...so he sold it to me for about half the price, which I could afford.

If that Ipod required you to pay a fee in order to make it work on you computer or some other dumb bullshit, you'd be singing a different tune.

that's beside the point I'm making though..

But anyway, the only problem here is that there's no way to combat piracy that doesn't also have an effect on used games. Because I'm fine with used games. The right to sell something goes hand in hand with the right to own.

If it's seriously having an impact on the industry then it's most likely because production costs are escalating. They need to look at how to keep costs down before trying to impede used sales.

(Not that I have the moral-highground over pirates here. I pirate stuff sometimes, I just don't make excuses for it.)

The point you made in that last post was the point I've been trying to make all along though. Some people who want to buy day one can't buy day one and now they will be punished for it. It's a good thing Apple didn't punish you for it.

It's the principle of the matter. Not the fact that it's going to break the bank of everybody.

As for piracy, we should just go back to gamecube disks. That shit was hard to pirate.

I regret bringing up piracy as this has completely sidetracked from the point. For the purposes of the argument lets consider piracy and used sales to be exactly the same thing, just like they are from the publishers point of view.

Basically what I'm trying to say is this: Companies need to start giving people incentives to buy their games, and buy them new, instead of punishing them for not doing so.

but I'd hardly call it a punishment if it's still a lot cheaper than buying a game new...


if i had to buy a code to use iTunes with my iPod (iTunes is free, but just as an example) I'd have paid for it without any real trouble, cause I got an iPod for half the price...

We already have pre-order bonuses. And people don't like that either because you lose out for not pre-ordering, just like used buyers will now lose out for not buying new. There's no incentive you can give to buy something new that won't hurt those buying used, so I don't really know what you mean.

Unless you're talking about making the game worth the price with great gameplay and stuff, but we have loads of amazing games and people still buy used or pirate them.

Eevil-Psycho wrote:

but I'd hardly call it a punishment if it's still a lot cheaper than buying a game new...


if i had to buy a code to use iTunes with my iPod (iTunes is free, but just as an example) I'd have paid for it without any real trouble, cause I got an iPod for half the price...

It's this submissive mindset that plays right into the hands of the publishers. They will eventually nickel and dime their way into ass fucking everyone. Again it's the principle of the matter, not that they are chargin an insane amount of money.

No, it can't be 'exclusive' like pre-order bonuses are, you need to add extra stuff, be it at or post release, that absolutely everyone who buys the game new will get. That's how you build a base of customers that actually like you. They'll trust you in the future and will be more inclined to purchase your products.

A fairly mediocre example of this are the demos and beta codes being included in some games, this isn't really ideal as demos and the like should be available to as many people as possible in order to broaden your customer base.

Another, better, example has been the recent release of The Witcher 2 (yes, this again). Absolutely everyone who buys the game new, no matter when or where they buy it or in what way (digital or retail) gets an absolute shitload of extra stuff for no extra cost, in fact the game costs a bit less than most.
http://buy.thewitcher.com/preorder-premium-en if you want to see what I'm talking about, I can't be bothered listing everything here. All the pre-order DLC was mandated by the publisher and was patched in for free a couple of weeks after the games release.

There's this excerpt from an interview with Gabe Newell that also sheds some light on the situation:

Quote :

PC Gamer: Do you have a good sense of piracy rates with Steam games?

Gabe Newell: They’re low enough that we don’t really spend any time [on it]. When you look at the things we sit around and talk about, as big picture cross game issues, we’re way more concerned about the stability of DirectX drivers or, you know, the erroneous banning of people. That’s way more of an issue for us than piracy.

Once you create service value for customers, ongoing service value, piracy seems to disappear, right? It’s like “Oh, you’re still doing something for me? I don’t mind the fact that I paid for this.” Once you actually localise your product in Russia and ship it on the same day that you ship your English language versions, this theoretical hotbed of piracy becomes your second largest- third largest after Germany in continental Europe? Or third after UK?

http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/09/15/we-ask-gabe-newell-about-piracy-drm-and-episode-three/

Jesus Neo, you're balls deep on that game.


That is the best way to do it though. Preorder bonuses wont disappear unfortunately. They are too far ingrained in publisher marketing strategies now. For consoles at least.

Ellis wrote:

Eevil-Psycho wrote:

but I'd hardly call it a punishment if it's still a lot cheaper than buying a game new...


if i had to buy a code to use iTunes with my iPod (iTunes is free, but just as an example) I'd have paid for it without any real trouble, cause I got an iPod for half the price...

It's this submissive mindset that plays right into the hands of the publishers. They will eventually nickel and dime their way into ass fucking everyone. Again it's the principle of the matter, not that they are chargin an insane amount of money.

but there's really no choice but to be submissive if you want to have some fun still... sure you can boycot it, but I don't think it's fun boycotting stuff that I really want to play or have. I don't wanna live a life where I have to limit all my pleasures just because of some stupid bullshit things. in the end, I just wanna play my fucking games, and as long as it's affordable I will pay for it... and that's not cause I'm sheep that swallows anything they feed to me, I just wanna have my enjoyment, and I don't mind paying more for it as long as I deem it worthy and/or affordable.

I get that, and I'm not gonna boycott it, I had it preordered prior to theis whole PSN Pass fiasco. But stirring things up and being outspoken about it can make just as much a difference as a boycott sometimes.

Insomniac has already issued a statement over the outcry from it. So they know that it has pissed off the majority of gamers out there.

I guess I might as well lift my boycott of EA as it would be hypocritical of me to carry on with it now. I wanted to play that Alice game neway and plus madden is around the corner.

Ellis wrote:

But stirring things up and being outspoken about it can make just as much a difference as a boycott sometimes.

I hope you are right then

Yeah, extra content for buying new. How is that not a punishment to those who buy used?

it's a punishment to buy used, but it's also an incentive to buy new..

with the PSN Pass, there's no real incentive to buy new, that his point I think..

Is the Witcher stuff available at a price for those who buy used?

A_Nonny_Moose wrote:

Yeah, extra content for buying new. How is that not a punishment to those who buy used?

You're missing the point, the idea is to make buying the new game more appealing instead of the other way round. The way things stand now is that there aren't really any benefits to buying new and yet you get screwed buying used.

If I can use a maths analogy, it's like the current state of things is:
New purchase = 0, used = -1
If I had my way it would be more like
New purchase = 1, used = 0

Quote :

Is the Witcher stuff available at a price for those who buy used?

You'd get all the ingame content even if you bought used but as far as I know there's no way to get the other stuff (digital media or physical books/maps/etc) unless you're lucky enough to have it included in the second hand box. It should be noted that many PC games can't be sold anyway thanks to CD-Keys but there is absolutely no DRM of any kind in this situation.

So if you buy it used there's some content that's impossible to get? How is that better than an online pass?

That's the thing, everyone gets the same game experience whether you buy it new or used so it can't really be classified as content. Just like the number thing I posted before.

"Publishers should be focusing on adding to their customers experiences instead of screwing over everyone elses."

That's really all there is to say.

i hate pre-order bonus. of the two times i pre-ordered one game i got nothing, the other i only got the part i didn't care about

If I can use a maths analogy, it's like the current state of things is:
New purchase = 0, used = -1
If I had my way it would be more like
New purchase = 1, used = 0


That really is the best way to look at it if you ask me.

So you'd prefer it every new copy of Resistance 3 came with a code for some more guns and characters skins and stuff that would be impossible to get if you bought it used?

Because I can't see that pissing off people any less than online passes.