So I played through MGS2 again recently and...

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the plot line was a retelling, i didn't actually care when you find out solidus killed his parents
like you said he was already wanting to kill the guy this hardly changed things

He only wanted to kill him at first because he was told to. After figuring out everything that happened he wanted to kill him because he had to stop him, he had no choice. He couldn't just leave or he'd be killed.

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and in terms of development if snake would end up coming across as annoying i'd rather not hear him talk and just play the game

Because all character development makes people annoying, right?

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dialogue isn't always a good thing, i mean the plot line is rather over complicated and wordy from MGS 2-4

If it really bothers you that the game has an actual, story then I guess. But I didn't find it that hard to follow everything.

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things were simpler and generally better in MGS1

So it was better because it simpler? Ha, I like things being more difficult to follow, it makes for more of a challenge.

Buu, you control Solid Snake in all the games except MGS3.
The Solid part refers to the graphics of MGS1. They were really good for their time.

Baal wrote:

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the plot line was a retelling, i didn't actually care when you find out solidus killed his parents
like you said he was already wanting to kill the guy this hardly changed things

He only wanted to kill him at first because he was told to. After figuring out everything that happened he wanted to kill him because he had to stop him, he had no choice. He couldn't just leave or he'd be killed.

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and in terms of development if snake would end up coming across as annoying i'd rather not hear him talk and just play the game

Because all character development makes people annoying, right?

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dialogue isn't always a good thing, i mean the plot line is rather over complicated and wordy from MGS 2-4

If it really bothers you that the game has an actual, story then I guess. But I didn't find it that hard to follow everything.

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things were simpler and generally better in MGS1

So it was better because it simpler? Ha, I like things being more difficult to follow, it makes for more of a challenge.

games being challenging is one thing
but its more the length of time you need to watch cutscenes, it really slowed down the pacing of the game
i mean you can pick up metal gear and be forced to watch like 15 mins of cutscene
MGS2 was the most guilty as you couldn't skip that huge ass talking near the end and had to listen to every word >_>

i don't think all character development is annoying
but i can safely say two characters i seriously could have done without knowing more about would be cloud in FF7 (he was mental >_>) and Raiden

honestly if they removed rose i would of probably liked raiden more, i don't think a game character has annoyed me more (well at least in a game i like) this is made worse as we're probably meant to sympathise with her

i don't particularly hate raiden i'm fairly indifferent and i think majority of ppl are like that with him
if he had little to no dialogue and we weren't forced plotwise to empathise him
i actually think he would of had a better reception

you can't just make ppl think your playing a game with a character you've grown to like and replace him with another
capcom played it smart and pointed out nero as a new guy when you played DMC4
but suprising us with removal of snake was a big deal to MGS fans

Kaede wrote:

Buu, you control Solid Snake in all the games except MGS3.
The Solid part refers to the graphics of MGS1. They were really good for their time.

well that one went over everyones heads

i thought the renaming was due to the fact almost no one had played the first two

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MGS2 was the most guilty as you couldn't skip that huge ass talking near the end and had to listen to every word >_>

HAHAHA, WHAT?! I remember every time I felt like replaying the battle with George on top of Federal Hall all I had to do was press one button and I could skip every scene.

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i don't think all character development is annoying
but i can safely say two characters i seriously could have done without knowing more about would be cloud in FF7 (he was mental >_>) and Raiden

Raiden developed very well and became a better person because of it (Until Kojima destroyed it in MGS4) and Cloud was never himself, he always believed he was Zack, he had to develop to recognize himself as his own person and he was all the better for it. Unless you liked the brooding faggot he was at the beginning of FF7 and AC.

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i don't particularly hate raiden i'm fairly indifferent and i think majority of ppl are like that with him
if he had little to no dialogue and we weren't forced plotwise to empathise him
i actually think he would of had a better reception

You're obviously not, otherwise you wouldn't be sitting here discussing why you dislike him. A good amount of the fanbase hated him in MGS2 because he looked feminine and wasn't Snake. I honestly have to admit that I didn't think much of him at first until I played the game, the guy fucking amazed me with how much he kicked ass and his development was great.

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you can't just make ppl think your playing a game with a character you've grown to like and replace him with another

Yes, yes you can. Because actual people need to learn that because someone pops up that they aren't familiar with he's not necessarily bad. Fanbases are filled with idiots who don't understand how to accept something new.

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capcom played it smart and pointed out nero as a new guy when you played DMC4

Except fanbases still hated Nero because he wasn't Dante.

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but suprising us with removal of snake was a big deal to MGS fans

Except, you know, Kojima didn't do anything wrong. You do get to play as Snake in MGS2. The fanbase needs to stop acting like Kojima wronged them in some way because he wanted what was best for his story, it's made even worse by him actually abusing the character he put so much work into, in the later games (Raiden).

Baal wrote:

Raziel wrote:

Baal wrote:

Raziel wrote:

Baal wrote:

Raziel wrote:

itd also cause the game is called metal gear solid and is referring to solid snake

the guy didn't have a chance of being liked

Because the original Metal Gear games were a reference to Solid Snake, huh?

the first two games were called metal gear -_-
that was a reference to metal gears

the later ones are called solid
the fact he wasn't in them disappointed fans

And? Who gives a shit about the fans? I sure as fuck don't. Raiden was a more well-developed character than Snake was, he took down one of Snake's brothers in that giant suit with just a Katana, and fought against an army of Metal Gear RAY's.

I'd say the guy deserves some fucking credit just because he isn't snake.

metal gear ray was a joke compared to rex

Except, you know RAY was specifically designed to kill Metal Gear's and is stronger than the REX.

if we pitched the two in a fight rex would beat ray
something that takes a few hits to kill (can't remember how many on the difficulty settings) compared to rex which was basically invincible to stinger missiles

Baal wrote:

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MGS2 was the most guilty as you couldn't skip that huge ass talking near the end and had to listen to every word >_>

HAHAHA, WHAT?! I remember every time I felt like replaying the battle with George on top of Federal Hall all I had to do was press one button and I could skip every scene.

i'm pretty sure first person scenes you can't skip its been a while and i had substance
maybe your version was different
or you possibly saved it after the speech, which i'm pretty sure you did

as far as playing with a different character to the series
this is never a popular choice look
so maybe you like to play as someone different, but it just seems like your not attached to any characters at all

when programmes replace characters with reitterations of old characters or characters who are supposed to be stereotypically cool i find them shit

the new season of scrubs will be shit, becaues they will try to work the old magic with new characters
but if you never cared for the characters this wouldn't make a difference to you

i've never heard you really go on about MGS outside of defending raiden and it sounds like MGS2 was your first game
and honestly as far as MGS is concerned the games story was what interested me
the fact they managed to develop such an intricate plot without having chracter development is a testament to how comprehensive the story was

raidens part was literally there just to make it easier to understand the story
cause he lived the thing the game was explaining
although his whole part could of been replced with a few lines of text

and the reason ppl liked MGS4 raiden was because he fulfilled again another old role
one which involved the cyborg ninja
anyone could of been in that suit and it would of had the same effect
seriously as they're reviving the dead they could of just bought back gray fox again >_>

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i'm pretty sure first person scenes you can't skip its been a while and i had substance

Oh those, yeah you can't skip those, but I always saved after that because it's the smart thing to do.

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this is never a popular choice look

Because going with the fans is the smart thing to do, right? Let the fans run your creation, not you, huh?

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so maybe you like to play as someone different, but it just seems like your not attached to any characters at all

Because this is the only option, huh? I can't be open to the idea of a new character without still liking the last one, can I? Nope, obviously anyone who likes the new guy must hate the old one.

Isn't that right?

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if we pitched the two in a fight rex would beat ray

Except, it wouldn't. Why would RAY lose, when it was specifically designed to destroy Metal Gears including REX? The only reason that REX beat RAY in MGS4 is because Snake was behind the wheel. RAY is not only faster than REX but it can easily pierce its armor.

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something that takes a few hits to kill (can't remember how many on the difficulty settings) compared to rex which was basically invincible to stinger missiles

Although you know, the fact that RAY's Water Cutter can pierce right through the armor of REX proves a big problem for REX and the fact that RAY has more options of what to move around in.

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when programmes replace characters with reitterations of old characters or characters who are supposed to be stereotypically cool i find them shit

Except Raiden wasn't supposed to be like Snake nor was he made to be a badass. He was int he simulation because he was trained to be the next Snake and he was unknowing of this. He breaks out of the simulation and learns the truth about everything and rises up to the challenge.

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the new season of scrubs will be shit, becaues they will try to work the old magic with new characters
but if you never cared for the characters this wouldn't make a difference to you

No, it's going to be shit if the jokes suck. It shouldn't matter that the characters you liked aren't there. I will agree it is pretty sad to some of the old guys go but hey, maybe these new guys won't be so bad.

But of course, everyone accentuates the negative because it isn't what they want.

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i've never heard you really go on about MGS outside of defending raiden and it sounds like MGS2 was your first game

Except MGS3 was my first MGS game, try again Sir. By your logic I should be attached to Big Boss, which I kind of was.

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raidens part was literally there just to make it easier to understand the story

Although, it wasn't. If anything MGS2's major complaint other than Raiden was how hard the story was to understand, so your point is extremely moot.

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although his whole part could of been replced with a few lines of text

So could Snake's. "Scruffy guy saves America from a bunch of douchebags, thanks for playing." If you're that much a douchebag about and are that boring then you could say that.

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and the reason ppl liked MGS4 raiden was because he fulfilled again another old role

No, the reason they liked him was because he did cool flips, used a sword and called himself a ninja. They completely ignored the fact he spent a good portion of the game bitching about sad his life was, something you complain about MGS2 Raiden for doing for a good few minutes at the end of the game despite having justifiable reasons to do so.

The only reason Raiden was liked in MGS4 was because he could fancy ninja bullshit, not because he was the cyborg ninja.

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if we pitched the two in a fight rex would beat ray

Except, it wouldn't. Why would RAY lose, when it was specifically designed to destroy Metal Gears including REX? The only reason that REX beat RAY in MGS4 is because Snake was behind the wheel.

REX didn't even beat RAY in MGS4, you only 'win' for gameplay reasons. In the cutscene following the fight, both mechs are totalled but only Ocelot can still stand and run. Snake was practically dead after being knocked around in REX.

Oh right.

Sounds like Buu couldn't stand playing a game without staring at Snake's well toned ass.

Sarbud wrote:

Sounds like Buu couldn't stand playing a game without staring at Snake's well toned ass.

DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUUUN

Oh, Shit! XD

This is why I don't usually listen to people and just check things out on my own. I'm prolly one of the few that actually like to see new characters. >_>

Nero was cash (His Possessed Arm is fucking awesome.)
Raiden is cool in PO+ (Still need to play MGS2.)
Leo, Miguel, & Bob are pretty cool. (All the other newfags can fuck off and die. And while I'm at it, I take back my comment about Maybe I'm a Lion & Lars, His new theme is now Barbie Girl, Him and Alisa can both fight to it. XD)