So I played through MGS2 again recently and...

I still don't see the hate for Raiden. He was a great character who was really badass. Snake was cool but his slaughtering of the soldiers towards the end didn't stop making Raiden cool, especially when he took on all of those Metal Gear RAY's and beat Solidus in Sword Combat. It still makes me depressed to see how much of a downgrade he got in MGS4.

most people were probably sexually confused after seeing him in a skin tight suit with no facial hair and said "ugh' this guy is gay!" thus forbidding to see that he is actually a good character. i still liked him in 4 though.

I didn't care for him in 4. The only thing that was cool was his fight with Vamp. He just sat there bitching about his kidney-failure, something that MGS2 Raiden would've dealt with.

he bitched quite a bit towards the end of 2 as well. i actually started disliking him around then, but after he stopped i didn't care about that part anymore.

He actually had a reason though. Being lead around by Virtual Reality superiors and being put through what is basically a training program for a new Solid Snake would piss anyone off to the point of bitching.

yeah, i did like him better in 2 though. in 4 there were times he came off as an emo bitch which annoyed me, but he seemed really calm during the parts i liked him, which was cool to me. i also liked most of the scenes he had in 4 much more than in 2. but that sword was at the end is what i really liked about him in 2, easily my favorite part.

MGS2 Raiden is my favorite MGS protagonist.

I liked Raiden even without having played MGS2. >_> Just being able to play as him in Portable Ops Plus was cash for me. And yeah, He really got a bad deal in MGS4. He could've been more bad-ass.....in attitude, I mean.


EDIT: Now that I think about it, The story was that he was getting drunk and shit and then his wife left him and took his kid with her. >_> I think I'd be slightly pissed too if I were Raiden.....But why was he drinking again?

I don't remember exactly.

Wait, so the bitch he was worrying about in MGS2 left him in 4?

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EDIT: Now that I think about it, The story was that he was getting drunk and shit and then his wife left him and took his kid with her. >_> I think I'd be slightly pissed too if I were Raiden.....But why was he drinking again?

Fuck, I just typed a massive post detailing everything you'd need to know, but refreshed the page and I lost it all.

The short answer:

Spoiler:

Sarbud wrote:

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EDIT: Now that I think about it, The story was that he was getting drunk and shit and then his wife left him and took his kid with her. >_> I think I'd be slightly pissed too if I were Raiden.....But why was he drinking again?

Fuck, I just typed a massive post detailing everything you'd need to know, but refreshed the page and I lost it all.

The short answer:

Spoiler:

oh yeah, That's right.

...Jesus O_o

Baal wrote:

I still don't see the hate for Raiden. He was a great character who was really badass. Snake was cool but his slaughtering of the soldiers towards the end didn't stop making Raiden cool, especially when he took on all of those Metal Gear RAY's and beat Solidus in Sword Combat. It still makes me depressed to see how much of a downgrade he got in MGS4.

this boils down to you having a fetish for men with white hair, tight outfits, questionable sexuality and a large pointy object

He was too feminine in MGS2.

itd also cause the game is called metal gear solid and is referring to solid snake

the guy didn't have a chance of being liked

Raziel wrote:

Baal wrote:

I still don't see the hate for Raiden. He was a great character who was really badass. Snake was cool but his slaughtering of the soldiers towards the end didn't stop making Raiden cool, especially when he took on all of those Metal Gear RAY's and beat Solidus in Sword Combat. It still makes me depressed to see how much of a downgrade he got in MGS4.

this boils down to you having a fetish for men with white hair, tight outfits, questionable sexuality and a large pointy object

You do realize the outfit helps him with combat like it did with Snake right? You do realize he has a woman and a kid, right?

Or are you too focused on his appearance to actually believe he is a good character? I know Chou is.

Raziel wrote:

itd also cause the game is called metal gear solid and is referring to solid snake

the guy didn't have a chance of being liked

Because the original Metal Gear games were a reference to Solid Snake, huh?

Baal wrote:

Raziel wrote:

itd also cause the game is called metal gear solid and is referring to solid snake

the guy didn't have a chance of being liked

Because the original Metal Gear games were a reference to Solid Snake, huh?

the first two games were called metal gear -_-
that was a reference to metal gears

the later ones are called solid
the fact he wasn't in them disappointed fans

Raziel wrote:

Baal wrote:

Raziel wrote:

itd also cause the game is called metal gear solid and is referring to solid snake

the guy didn't have a chance of being liked

Because the original Metal Gear games were a reference to Solid Snake, huh?

the first two games were called metal gear -_-
that was a reference to metal gears

the later ones are called solid
the fact he wasn't in them disappointed fans

And? Who gives a shit about the fans? I sure as fuck don't. Raiden was a more well-developed character than Snake was, he took down one of Snake's brothers in that giant suit with just a Katana, and fought against an army of Metal Gear RAY's.

I'd say the guy deserves some fucking credit just because he isn't snake.

Baal wrote:

Raziel wrote:

Baal wrote:

I still don't see the hate for Raiden. He was a great character who was really badass. Snake was cool but his slaughtering of the soldiers towards the end didn't stop making Raiden cool, especially when he took on all of those Metal Gear RAY's and beat Solidus in Sword Combat. It still makes me depressed to see how much of a downgrade he got in MGS4.

this boils down to you having a fetish for men with white hair, tight outfits, questionable sexuality and a large pointy object

You do realize the outfit helps him with combat like it did with Snake right? You do realize he has a woman and a kid, right?

Or are you too focused on his appearance to actually believe he is a good character? I know Chou is.

since when do whiny characters make a good character
he was only in the game to make a reference to virtually made soldiers

the fact he was having psychological issues throughout the game and his dialogue with rose was plain annoying hardly makes him good

i honestly don't see how you can prefer him to any of the snakes
only thing i liked about him was he could use the HF blade

Baal wrote:

Raziel wrote:

Baal wrote:

Raziel wrote:

itd also cause the game is called metal gear solid and is referring to solid snake

the guy didn't have a chance of being liked

Because the original Metal Gear games were a reference to Solid Snake, huh?

the first two games were called metal gear -_-
that was a reference to metal gears

the later ones are called solid
the fact he wasn't in them disappointed fans

And? Who gives a shit about the fans? I sure as fuck don't. Raiden was a more well-developed character than Snake was, he took down one of Snake's brothers in that giant suit with just a Katana, and fought against an army of Metal Gear RAY's.

I'd say the guy deserves some fucking credit just because he isn't snake.

metal gear ray was a joke compared to rex

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since when do whiny characters make a good character

The only time he was whiny was towards the end and by this point he had plenty to bitch about. How about being in a simulation so they could make him into another Snake? How about realizing that his orders were coming from fake superiors? How about realizing that the man he's been trying to kill killed his family and then raised him to be a murderer?

I'd say he had plenty to complain about by this point.

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the fact he was having psychological issues throughout the game and his dialogue with rose was plain annoying hardly makes him good

I agree that Rose was fucking obnoxious but Raiden is not Rose so blame her for the dialogue not him.

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i honestly don't see how you can prefer him to any of the snakes

Because he's the only well-developed character in this series.

Raziel wrote:

Baal wrote:

Raziel wrote:

Baal wrote:

Raziel wrote:

itd also cause the game is called metal gear solid and is referring to solid snake

the guy didn't have a chance of being liked

Because the original Metal Gear games were a reference to Solid Snake, huh?

the first two games were called metal gear -_-
that was a reference to metal gears

the later ones are called solid
the fact he wasn't in them disappointed fans

And? Who gives a shit about the fans? I sure as fuck don't. Raiden was a more well-developed character than Snake was, he took down one of Snake's brothers in that giant suit with just a Katana, and fought against an army of Metal Gear RAY's.

I'd say the guy deserves some fucking credit just because he isn't snake.

metal gear ray was a joke compared to rex

Except, you know RAY was specifically designed to kill Metal Gear's and is stronger than the REX.

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Metal Gear Solid 2's Raiden got a lot of flak from fanboys, mostly for being a Replacement Scrappy for Solid Snake, but attributed to him being a "weak, overly-feminine character" (despite the fact that he fought well, taking down several Metal Gears, killing a former President of the United States, and did far better than most people could have done in his profoundly shitty situation, leaving with renewed purpose, the respect of his mentor, a renewed relationship with the woman he loved, and with the child of a castmate still alive). Metal Gear Solid 4 reinvented him to be a cyborg ninja, and these days, he's a lot more popular - even though his ninja self spent half of the game dying slowly of kidney failure and the other half whining about his awful situation (something which in Metal Gear Solid 2 he would have tried to deal with) and taking orders from a little girl. It just goes to show how shallow this trope (and/or people's standards of Badassery) is; Raiden was judged pathetic because of his appearance (his actions apparently did not matter).

And here's a better example of what I'm saying.

Baal wrote:

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since when do whiny characters make a good character

The only time he was whiny was towards the end and by this point he had plenty to bitch about. How about being in a simulation so they could make him into another Snake? How about realizing that his orders were coming from fake superiors? How about realizing that the man he's been trying to kill killed his family and then raised him to be a murderer?

I'd say he had plenty to complain about by this point.

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the fact he was having psychological issues throughout the game and his dialogue with rose was plain annoying hardly makes him good

I agree that Rose was fucking obnoxious but Raiden is not Rose so blame her for the dialogue not him.

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i honestly don't see how you can prefer him to any of the snakes

Because he's the only well-developed character in this series.

the plot line was a retelling, i didn't actually care when you find out solidus killed his parents
like you said he was already wanting to kill the guy this hardly changed things

and in terms of development if snake would end up coming across as annoying i'd rather not hear him talk and just play the game
dialogue isn't always a good thing, i mean the plot line is rather over complicated and wordy from MGS 2-4

things were simpler and generally better in MGS1