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Empirewild
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PostSubject: Re: Street Fighter V   Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:22 pm

I don't want to be remind of SFEX...........

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PostSubject: Re: Street Fighter V   Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:40 pm



Cross platform play between PS4 and PC was confirmed. Also, Ultra Street Fighter IV coming to PS4 this spring.
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PostSubject: Re: Street Fighter V   Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:27 pm

It looks like there's some special mode you activate which enhances your specials and stuff and I think Chun-Li did an OTG after the air combo, but there's unfortunately not a lot to really gather from the trailer aside from that.

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PostSubject: Re: Street Fighter V   Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:08 pm

Exclusive to consoles and console exclusive mean two different things, I've seen way too many awful comments about that.

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PostSubject: Re: Street Fighter V   Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:04 pm

Baal wrote:
The appeal of ST is it's a game where the mechanics are based solely in the characters and not on any outlier mechanics. It's straight up "Who is the better player at this game?", it's one of the fastest fighting games, and it's hard as shit to play. The only thing that is not just "The characters" is the super meter which isn't intrusive to the game at all. The game being unbalanced as shit is fine, if that's the only problem with your fighting game then you've got a good fighting game.

Third Strike comparatively is a much slower game with far more idiotic design decisions like parrying which renders zoning completely useless (And makes characters like Remy and Alex low tier despite the fact they should have the tools they need to be better). It also makes the game anemic at higher levels because of shit like fishing for parries, so footsies effectively just become a detriment in a series where up to that point they were always the way to actually fight. Then comes the characters, half of the cast is really cool and has neat styles (Makoto, Ibuki, Dudley, the Twins, Urien, and Oro) and then the other half are horrible mishmashes of characters who get fucked by the game's mechanics (Alex, Remy, Q, Hugo and the Shotos), poor balancing (SEAN), just suck (Twelve & Necro) or are stupidly OP as fuck because everything about them leans them in favor of how the game is designed (Chun-Li). Also, I say I like Yun, but Gennei-Jin is one of the most retarded things in that game and turns him into a Marvel character.

Like there is a reason everyone hated SF3 when those games all came out. The only reason that game was played for like 10 years was because it was the newest SF game and the one everyone was playing. MvC2, CvS2, and ST were all still being played, but Third Strike was the most friendly game to newcomers, SF vets, and people who want to play more people than the usual suspects so everyone played it. The second SF4 popped up that game was dropped like a bad habit. It says a lot that MvC3 is dying and MvC2 is making a comeback, yet SF4 has been going strong for six years and the most Third Strike got is a main spot in a nostalgia tourney recently where SF4 was still played anyways. For all of my shit-talking of SF3, I liked ideas it presented like selectable supers, EX moves, and some of the characters were pretty fun to play, but it's not a good game. The SF3 series would be the worst SF games of the series if it weren't for like SF1 and EX existing.

Solid reasoning for the most part, but I disagree about parrying. Parrying is in of itself a risk/reward system, because if you fuck up, you get punished free. Fishing for parries will get you killed, because after a certain point, your opponent will figure out what you're doing and just simply adjust his or her timing. Or they can just grab you. If you could parry the same way you block, I would agree, because you would be blocking but if you hit it at the right time you parry. But since you have to hit forward, you conscientiously take yourself out of a blocking situation in order to risk this.

Footsies are not even close to being a detriment, because even if you get parried, you can follow up. Zoning is also not useless, but becomes much less effective. You can throw different speeds of Hadoukens, for instance, and they have to adjust their parry timing and that could be tricky at lower to mid level play. It doesn't seem to affect the shotos too much, as Ryu, Ken and Akuma are all higher tier characters in Third Strike.
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PostSubject: Re: Street Fighter V   Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:40 am

Zero wrote:
Solid reasoning for the most part, but I disagree about parrying. Parrying is in of itself a risk/reward system, because if you fuck up, you get punished free. Fishing for parries will get you killed, because after a certain point, your opponent will figure out what you're doing and just simply adjust his or her timing. Or they can just grab you. If you could parry the same way you block, I would agree, because you would be blocking but if you hit it at the right time you parry. But since you have to hit forward, you conscientiously take yourself out of a blocking situation in order to risk this.

Footsies are not even close to being a detriment, because even if you get parried, you can follow up. Zoning is also not useless, but becomes much less effective. You can throw different speeds of Hadoukens, for instance, and they have to adjust their parry timing and that could be tricky at lower to mid level play. It doesn't seem to affect the shotos too much, as Ryu, Ken and Akuma are all higher tier characters in Third Strike.

Parrying is not a risk, because parrying is used in response to predictable shit. This is the reason zoning is pointless in Third Strike and no one ever uses projectiles in higher level play. When you throw out a projectile, how do you respond to it normally in any other SF game? Jumping, blocking, hell even certain Tatsus have projectile invincibility, in SF4 you can even use Focus and there's still a risk. If someone is trying to zone you at full screen in Third Strike, you just parry it. It does no damage, is easy to parry, and the only people it's a risk for are people who are bad/new to SF3. If you try and use zoning to gain ground, parrying gives you an advantage upon activation so your opponent can stuff out your attempts at offense if you try to approach them immediately after they parry. This is not to even mention that good players are not just going to let you do that shit to them because then they'd be letting you just get free combos on them. There is no point to using projectiles in Third Stirke unless they are in combos or the projectile has a special property like the Denjin Hadoken. Projectiles are so fucking bad that Aegis Reflector had to molded into a combo super instead of its actual intended purpose since no one ever uses them in Third Strike.

You cannot follow up from footsies in Third Strike, the point of a parry is to reward you for stopping your opponents attack at the highest possible risk so it gives you an immediate advantage to follow up. Only if you are using quick recovering normals that have been parried can you actually respond from a parry and if you are playing slower characters like Alex, Hugo, or Dudley you get to eat shit because only their lows are remotely fast enough to defend a parry follow up and if you are fighting against a good Chun-Li? You might as well put the stick down and let it happen, because if she parries anything and you are in range for crouching MK, you are either going to lose most of your life or are dead. The same would go for Yun except he breaks the rules of the game with his dumb custom combo. Why do you think half of Justin Wong's games against people in 3S tournaments involve him staying at mid-range against his opponents? They have limited options and he knows what they can and can't do, the second they throw out an attack he's gotten his parry and he's in forever.

The reason the three shotos are where they are is because can has the most suited moveset to 3S and was balanced to be better, but even he's still upper midtier. Ryu is almost bottom midtier and Akuma is only slightly above him. They're not great and part of the reason is because 3S is a stupid anemic game.

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PostSubject: Re: Street Fighter V   Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:46 am

Baal wrote:
Zero wrote:
Solid reasoning for the most part, but I disagree about parrying. Parrying is in of itself a risk/reward system, because if you fuck up, you get punished free. Fishing for parries will get you killed, because after a certain point, your opponent will figure out what you're doing and just simply adjust his or her timing. Or they can just grab you. If you could parry the same way you block, I would agree, because you would be blocking but if you hit it at the right time you parry. But since you have to hit forward, you conscientiously take yourself out of a blocking situation in order to risk this.

Footsies are not even close to being a detriment, because even if you get parried, you can follow up. Zoning is also not useless, but becomes much less effective. You can throw different speeds of Hadoukens, for instance, and they have to adjust their parry timing and that could be tricky at lower to mid level play. It doesn't seem to affect the shotos too much, as Ryu, Ken and Akuma are all higher tier characters in Third Strike.

Parrying is not a risk, because parrying is used in response to predictable shit. This is the reason zoning is pointless in Third Strike and no one ever uses projectiles in higher level play. When you throw out a projectile, how do you respond to it normally in any other SF game? Jumping, blocking, hell even certain Tatsus have projectile invincibility, in SF4 you can even use Focus and there's still a risk. If someone is trying to zone you at full screen in Third Strike, you just parry it. It does no damage, is easy to parry, and the only people it's a risk for are people who are bad/new to SF3. If you try and use zoning to gain ground, parrying gives you an advantage upon activation so your opponent can stuff out your attempts at offense if you try to approach them immediately after they parry. This is not to even mention that good players are not just going to let you do that shit to them because then they'd be letting you just get free combos on them. There is no point to using projectiles in Third Stirke unless they are in combos or the projectile has a special property like the Denjin Hadoken. Projectiles are so fucking bad that Aegis Reflector had to molded into a combo super instead of its actual intended purpose since no one ever uses them in Third Strike.

You cannot follow up from footsies in Third Strike, the point of a parry is to reward you for stopping your opponents attack at the highest possible risk so it gives you an immediate advantage to follow up. Only if you are using quick recovering normals that have been parried can you actually respond from a parry and if you are playing slower characters like Alex, Hugo, or Dudley you get to eat shit because only their lows are remotely fast enough to defend a parry follow up and if you are fighting against a good Chun-Li? You might as well put the stick down and let it happen, because if she parries anything and you are in range for crouching MK, you are either going to lose most of your life or are dead. The same would go for Yun except he breaks the rules of the game with his dumb custom combo. Why do you think half of Justin Wong's games against people in 3S tournaments involve him staying at mid-range against his opponents? They have limited options and he knows what they can and can't do, the second they throw out an attack he's gotten his parry and he's in forever.

The reason the three shotos are where they are is because can has the most suited moveset to 3S and was balanced to be better, but even he's still upper midtier. Ryu is almost bottom midtier and Akuma is only slightly above him. They're not great and part of the reason is because 3S is a stupid anemic game.

Yes, you can follow up from footsies in Third Strike. Low MK into Shoryuken works just fine even when parried. Then parrying that full combo requires precise timing and knowledge of each hit. Like Ken's Fierce Shoryuken hits more than once.

Parrying is a risk, no matter how you slice it. Yes, parrying predictable projectiles is easier, but that's not the only use for parrying obviously. Dudley is a good example of using a projectile to get in. You can follow up his taunt (throws the flower) with EX Machine Gun Punch. If you opt to block the flower, you will come out just fine. But if you parry the flower, you have a chance of getting hit unless you know the precise timing of each hit, which is much harder.

Zoning at full screen is just as ineffective in this game as in the others. You can just as easily neutral or forward jump over any projectile in Super Turbo from full screen as you can parry one in Third Strike. Arguably it's harder to parry than simply jumping over something. So I don't see what your point is in terms of full screen zoning. That doesn't work in any SF game under normal circumstances. Few instances of exceptions, like Hugo vs Sagat in USFIV.

In Third Strike, you use projectiles more sparingly. But is that honestly such a bad thing? It's not that they're useless, but shouldn't be used predictably. In many other SFs, you can stand mid screen and keep throwing out projectiles till they get close enough. How is that any better? If we're talking about a mid screen game, a neutral jump and a parry are basically the same in terms of frame advantage and positioning. The only major difference is that the parry dispels the projectile quicker, and thus allows said opponent to throw another one quicker. So if anything, there is a slight advantage to having your projectile parried over being neutral jumped over.

Now, if we're talking about a jump in, that's a bit different. In SFIV, you can throw a Hadouken and be able to punish a jump in if from far enough away. In Third Strike, you can parry the anti-air and gain an advantage. But therein lines the risk/reward implementation. If you know a parry is coming, you simply don't anti-air and wait, or just purposely mis-time another attack. Even though there's a bit of guess work involved, the zoner still has more options available and hence has the inherent advantage. But that also makes the game more exciting because now there are mind games involved.

Though I can't lie. Yun and Chun are busted, but they're far from unbeatable. Third Strike's upper echelon of characters at least amounts to 7-9 characters, which is a little under half the cast. That's really not so bad. At least they don't ban Chun and Yun from Third Strike tournaments. Akuma is usually banned from ST. But other than that, that game I can at least say is decently balanced.

Btw: http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Street_Fighter_3:_3rd_Strike#Tier-list

Ryu, Ken and Akuma are on the upper half of the cast list in every list except maybe one.
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PostSubject: Re: Street Fighter V   Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:17 am

I'm basically just going to respond to the main points here because this doesn't need to be a wall of text.

Quote :
Now, if we're talking about a jump in, that's a bit different. In SFIV, you can throw a Hadouken and be able to punish a jump in if from far enough away. In Third Strike, you can parry the anti-air and gain an advantage. But therein lines the risk/reward implementation. If you know a parry is coming, you simply don't anti-air and wait, or just purposely mis-time another attack. Even though there's a bit of guess work involved, the zoner still has more options available and hence has the inherent advantage. But that also makes the game more exciting because now there are mind games involved.

Is this the crux of your argument? That the game becomes rock-paper-scissors at its most basic level? Do you know what other game does this shit as the games fundamental mechanical level? KILLER INSTINCT. Fighting games are largely RPS and this is fine because it's part of skill that you have tools to help put the game in a controlled environment where certain elements of the RPS has advantages over the others and your skill pulls you out above the opponent. But what you're saying is the game JUST becomes mind games at a higher level (Which is absolutely not true) and at that point its stupid. It doesn't involve the skill of the player at that point, it doesn't involve in-depth knowledge of the game's mechanics, it involves who can guess better than the other and respond quickly enough to their guess to win?

That's not exciting. That's the antithesis of exciting, it's boring and predictable. It doesn't give suspense to the game, it makes certain things a sword of damocles. But that's not my main point, my main point is that you are wrong in thinking this, because if 3S is RPS then it is missing a Rock. Due to the fact that parrying exists, zoning characters cannot effectively fight back against rushdown and vortex characters. So in a game where rushdown and vortex characters dominate, zoners can't hope to win because they can't control the pace of a match or at least get breathing room. So instead of being RPS it just becomes PS with R off at the side in a middling territory or complete garbo.

Quote :
Though I can't lie. Yun and Chun are busted, but they're far from unbeatable. Third Strike's upper echelon of characters at least amounts to 7-9 characters, which is a little under half the cast. That's really not so bad. At least they don't ban Chun and Yun from Third Strike tournaments. Akuma is usually banned from ST. But other than that, that game I can at least say is decently balanced.

Btw: http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Street_Fighter_3:_3rd_Strike#Tier-list

Ryu, Ken and Akuma are on the upper half of the cast list in every list except maybe one.

What? Did you look at the lists you posted or do you think the "A" and "A-" that Ryu and Akuma are in make them high on the list? They are right in the middle of the damn thing like I've been saying to you. Letter grades don't mean anything when the higher levels are made entirely of S, A, and B. In the first one Akuma is on the higher end of midtier. The first list is completely outdated, Chun-Li has been proven better than Yun in a multitude of ways. The second list they are both midtier since they are on the fifth category in a nine category list. And on the last one, Akuma is barely in upper midtier and Ryu is barely in the midtier.

This is not to mention the low tier of Third Strike is barely ever seen in higher level play because they are all considered worthless by people who actually play 3S so you might as well not even count it.[/quote]

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PostSubject: Re: Street Fighter V   Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:24 am

Also El Fuerte is a character whose gimmick is literally 66/33 guessing games. Everyone hates Fuerte by the way because his entire playstyle is based around the opponent making random guesses at what his next move is going to be. If you guess he did the Tostada Press and anti-air it , you get damage! Guess what happens if he decides to slide instead! Hey maybe you think he'll do the press again and punish him on block? Nope, he did tortilla twister and you got hit again. Etc. etc.

David Sirlin is full of shit and if you think fighting games being just mind games is good you are crazy.

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PostSubject: Re: Street Fighter V   Sun Dec 07, 2014 5:00 am

Baal wrote:
I'm basically just going to respond to the main points here because this doesn't need to be a wall of text.

Quote :
Now, if we're talking about a jump in, that's a bit different. In SFIV, you can throw a Hadouken and be able to punish a jump in if from far enough away. In Third Strike, you can parry the anti-air and gain an advantage. But therein lines the risk/reward implementation. If you know a parry is coming, you simply don't anti-air and wait, or just purposely mis-time another attack. Even though there's a bit of guess work involved, the zoner still has more options available and hence has the inherent advantage. But that also makes the game more exciting because now there are mind games involved.

Is this the crux of your argument? That the game becomes rock-paper-scissors at its most basic level? Do you know what other game does this shit as the games fundamental mechanical level? KILLER INSTINCT. Fighting games are largely RPS and this is fine because it's part of skill that you have tools to help put the game in a controlled environment where certain elements of the RPS has advantages over the others and your skill pulls you out above the opponent. But what you're saying is the game JUST becomes mind games at a higher level (Which is absolutely not true) and at that point its stupid. It doesn't involve the skill of the player at that point, it doesn't involve in-depth knowledge of the game's mechanics, it involves who can guess better than the other and respond quickly enough to their guess to win?

That's not exciting. That's the antithesis of exciting, it's boring and predictable. It doesn't give suspense to the game, it makes certain things a sword of damocles. But that's not my main point, my main point is that you are wrong in thinking this, because if 3S is RPS then it is missing a Rock. Due to the fact that parrying exists, zoning characters cannot effectively fight back against rushdown and vortex characters. So in a game where rushdown and vortex characters dominate, zoners can't hope to win because they can't control the pace of a match or at least get breathing room. So instead of being RPS it just becomes PS with R off at the side in a middling territory or complete garbo.

Quote :
Though I can't lie. Yun and Chun are busted, but they're far from unbeatable. Third Strike's upper echelon of characters at least amounts to 7-9 characters, which is a little under half the cast. That's really not so bad. At least they don't ban Chun and Yun from Third Strike tournaments. Akuma is usually banned from ST. But other than that, that game I can at least say is decently balanced.

Btw: http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Street_Fighter_3:_3rd_Strike#Tier-list

Ryu, Ken and Akuma are on the upper half of the cast list in every list except maybe one.

What? Did you look at the lists you posted or do you think the "A" and "A-" that Ryu and Akuma are in make them high on the list? They are right in the middle of the damn thing like I've been saying to you. Letter grades don't mean anything when the higher levels are made entirely of S, A, and B. In the first one Akuma is on the higher end of midtier. The first list is completely outdated, Chun-Li has been proven better than Yun in a multitude of ways. The second list they are both midtier since they are on the fifth category in a nine category list. And on the last one, Akuma is barely in upper midtier and Ryu is barely in the midtier.

This is not to mention the low tier of Third Strike is barely ever seen in higher level play because they are all considered worthless by people who actually play 3S so you might as well not even count it.

It's not JUST the rps though. That's only one part of the system. You still have to have in-depth knowledge and practice with everything. For instance, you need to still understand timing and movesets. You need to understand how to pull off the best punishes in each situation and have the execution skill to perform it.

Killer Instinct is more of a direct rock, paper, scissors game with combo and counter breakers. The key difference between that system and Third Strike is the risk you take. In KI, you are already in a combo and try to break it. The risk is relatively low tbh. In that game, you're already stuck in a combo, meaning you're at a current disadvantage. Sure, you can dig yourself into a deeper hole, but you're still better off trying to break a combo than doing nothing. In Third Strike, you are risking a lot more. You can choose the safer route, which is blocking. It leaves you at a less risky situation for less reward and punishment. You can choose the riskier route, which is parrying. It can leave you at very good positioning close range, but it can also cost you the round if you screw up. In KI, you can honestly just guess and combo break here and there. In Third Strike, you still have to play smart. You can jump in on a zoner and try to parry a potential anti-air, but you have still put yourself at a disadvantage, because the zoner has more options. You can choose to play it safer by neutral jumping or parrying while stationary. But that won't give you any frame advantages whatsoever. Or you can choose to risk a more disadvantageous situation to try and come up with better results. That's not the same as RPS.

Well, I suppose fair point about the tier list. But you will still see at least the 7-9 played quite frequently in Third Strike. Even among the middles, Urien and Akuma are very common, in fact.
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PostSubject: Re: Street Fighter V   Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:36 am

Zero wrote:

It's not JUST the rps though. That's only one part of the system. You still have to have in-depth knowledge and practice with everything. For instance, you need to still understand timing and movesets. You need to understand how to pull off the best punishes in each situation and have the execution skill to perform it.

Yes, like every other fighting game. However, every other fighter though doesn't ask for you stop attacking so an opponent doesn't negate your whole attack despite the fact they jumped and lost ground. When the opponent jumps in a game where air to air combat is limited and you have every reason to attack them, they should get punished. But the fact that there is a mechanic in place which not only gives advantage to the person who jumps (Don't say it fucking doesn't, because if you do then that negates your whole point about mind games as that gives no reason to not anti-air), but the fact that the person who should have the advantage has to guess if they're going to be parried for fear they will be comboed by the person who should be helpless is fucking stupid. That is literally rock paper scissors, if you throw an attack you get parried, if you stop you don't get parried, but if they land quickly enough they get to block your next attack so they can jump with wreckless abandon and the only way you can punish that is to hope they don't parry.

That's not skill, that's not talent, it's fucking guessing games. There is no depth to that. There is no skill. But that's me saying that there's nothing more to 3rd Strike than guessing games, which is wrong because if any fighting game comes down to mind games and RPS then it's a fucking awful fighter, 3rd Strike is at least bad to okay. Half of Third Strike is rushing down the opponent, putting them in the corner, and comboing them for 500 years especially if you are Chun-Li, then your opponent is dead because you've got 20 options and they have like one unless they are Chun or Yun. Anyways, my point at the start was.

The fucking appeal of Super Turbo is that it is a simple fighting game that comes down to you know your characters and how best to use them. There are no universal outlier mechanics or factors aside from supers, there are no comeback mechanics, there are no stupid fucking easy to obtain supers which lead to half a person's health from crouching MK there is just the characters and the players, THAT'S IT. That does not mean there is less to the game, that does not mean the game is bare bones, that does not mean the game is for babies, that game is fucking difficult as hell to play. It's fine to like Third Strike, but acting like there is less to a game because there isn't some stupid fucking mechanic for you to exploit in case you get mad that someone is using hadokens on you is stupid. The worst thing about ST is its balance, Claw is absolutely stupid and he's actually not banned in any way unlike O. Sagat or Akuma who are the height of dumb characters.

The worst thing about Third Strike is its main mechanic not only is responsible for most of the characters that are really bad being as bad as they are, but it locks out an entire style of play that was viable before because of this one mechanic. It removes depth from styles of play and makes it more centered to play the game one way. There are no good grapplers in Third Strike, there are no good zoning options in Third Strike either, and they made the best character in the previous game the worst one in that game because balancing a game is apparently for losers so you just take him and make everything of his bad and give him attacks that are punishable on hit. Your excuses are all like... false, dude. Most of the stuff you say is actually not true and no one that even likes the game actually says the game has the things you say they do (Using Rose for zoning, are you fucking insane?). That game is based entirely in characters who can put you in the corner and fuck you forever. Hell, there is a full health combo that Makoto can do because the way dizzy works in that game allows for it.

SF4 has its problems too, but making that game more like ST is probably one of the best decisions Ono made because it allows for the game to be more accessible to newbies, but still be based in who can actually outplay the other. That being said, Viper and Rufus are fucking silly as hell and should've had more thought put behind them.

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PostSubject: Re: Street Fighter V   Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:18 am

Fuck fucking fuck fuck fuck.

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PostSubject: Re: Street Fighter V   Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:23 am

Sora I'm gonna cut you.

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PostSubject: Re: Street Fighter V   Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:14 pm

Baal wrote:
Zero wrote:

It's not JUST the rps though. That's only one part of the system. You still have to have in-depth knowledge and practice with everything. For instance, you need to still understand timing and movesets. You need to understand how to pull off the best punishes in each situation and have the execution skill to perform it.

Yes, like every other fighting game. However, every other fighter though doesn't ask for you stop attacking so an opponent doesn't negate your whole attack despite the fact they jumped and lost ground. When the opponent jumps in a game where air to air combat is limited and you have every reason to attack them, they should get punished. But the fact that there is a mechanic in place which not only gives advantage to the person who jumps (Don't say it fucking doesn't, because if you do then that negates your whole point about mind games as that gives no reason to not anti-air), but the fact that the person who should have the advantage has to guess if they're going to be parried for fear they will be comboed by the person who should be helpless is fucking stupid. That is literally rock paper scissors, if you throw an attack you get parried, if you stop you don't get parried, but if they land quickly enough they get to block your next attack so they can jump with wreckless abandon and the only way you can punish that is to hope they don't parry.

That's not skill, that's not talent, it's fucking guessing games. There is no depth to that. There is no skill. But that's me saying that there's nothing more to 3rd Strike than guessing games, which is wrong because if any fighting game comes down to mind games and RPS then it's a fucking awful fighter, 3rd Strike is at least bad to okay. Half of Third Strike is rushing down the opponent, putting them in the corner, and comboing them for 500 years especially if you are Chun-Li, then your opponent is dead because you've got 20 options and they have like one unless they are Chun or Yun. Anyways, my point at the start was.

The fucking appeal of Super Turbo is that it is a simple fighting game that comes down to you know your characters and how best to use them. There are no universal outlier mechanics or factors aside from supers, there are no comeback mechanics, there are no stupid fucking easy to obtain supers which lead to half a person's health from crouching MK there is just the characters and the players, THAT'S IT. That does not mean there is less to the game, that does not mean the game is bare bones, that does not mean the game is for babies, that game is fucking difficult as hell to play. It's fine to like Third Strike, but acting like there is less to a game because there isn't some stupid fucking mechanic for you to exploit in case you get mad that someone is using hadokens on you is stupid. The worst thing about ST is its balance, Claw is absolutely stupid and he's actually not banned in any way unlike O. Sagat or Akuma who are the height of dumb characters.

The worst thing about Third Strike is its main mechanic not only is responsible for most of the characters that are really bad being as bad as they are, but it locks out an entire style of play that was viable before because of this one mechanic. It removes depth from styles of play and makes it more centered to play the game one way. There are no good grapplers in Third Strike, there are no good zoning options in Third Strike either, and they made the best character in the previous game the worst one in that game because balancing a game is apparently for losers so you just take him and make everything of his bad and give him attacks that are punishable on hit. Your excuses are all like... false, dude. Most of the stuff you say is actually not true and no one that even likes the game actually says the game has the things you say they do (Using Rose for zoning, are you fucking insane?). That game is based entirely in characters who can put you in the corner and fuck you forever. Hell, there is a full health combo that Makoto can do because the way dizzy works in that game allows for it.

SF4 has its problems too, but making that game more like ST is probably one of the best decisions Ono made because it allows for the game to be more accessible to newbies, but still be based in who can actually outplay the other. That being said, Viper and Rufus are fucking silly as hell and should've had more thought put behind them.

I don't have an issue with why you like Super Turbo, because you explained that well. My issue is with your shit talking with Third Strike.

But I feel that we're going in circles now, because I'm repeating points and you're saying the same thing repeatedly. You know that it's not just a guessing game. There is some guess work involved, but it's not that simple. My point about mind games is that it plays a part, not is the entire thing. This is not the first and only game to use mind games as a part of a strategy. SSB Melee is very much the same and Brawl to a large extent. It's largely based on skill, but does involve some luck. If you prefer ST's style, that's fine. I prefer the SFIV system over any of them to be perfectly honest.
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PostSubject: Re: Street Fighter V   Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:44 pm

Baal wrote:
Sora I'm gonna cut you.

Take me, Baal!

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PostSubject: Re: Street Fighter V   Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:52 pm

If the inevitable Super Street Fighter 5 doesn't come to XO I'll eat a pair of my shorts.
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PostSubject: Re: Street Fighter V   Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:19 pm

Updates like that probably will happen but it's just easier to do that sort of thing in some cases.

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PostSubject: Re: Street Fighter V   Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:19 am

I dunno why zero and baal are getting all serious I beat both of those button mashers.

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PostSubject: Re: Street Fighter V   Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:09 am

I am so much better than I used to be it's not even funny. (I'm still not good enough to get out of my first round in tourneys, lol)

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PostSubject: Re: Street Fighter V   Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:36 am

I actually think the exclusivity that PS4 is getting is due to crossplay PC. A couple of playstation games have wanted to do it and I know portal 2 actually did do it. Considering DD2 is not on xbone for this exact reason i got a feeling this isn't a paid deal and more an issue with Xbone bitching about not having cross servers with sony.

Money changing hands was mentioned for some of the other exclusives xbone got but we've not heard about money changing hands with sony in any of the exclusives mentioned as yet that should've been multiplat.

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PostSubject: Re: Street Fighter V   Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:19 am

As far as I'm aware Portal 2 cross platform only happened because Valve just went ahead and used their own service to do it, obviously Sony had to work with them to link in with PSN but otherwise I don't think it sets a precedent.
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PostSubject: Re: Street Fighter V   Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:18 pm

Neo wrote:
As far as I'm aware Portal 2 cross platform only happened because Valve just went ahead and used their own service to do it, obviously Sony had to work with them to link in with PSN but otherwise I don't think it sets a precedent.

We'll likely find out wihin the next year if no games made by microsoft implement PC crossplay.

MS also has that really stupid policy where they need to have all game options available to them, so if for some reason xbone to pc connectivity was giving issues (I'd honestly expect it to be easier) that would mean they'd have to stop the game being on their console.

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PostSubject: Re: Street Fighter V   Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:37 pm

Superbuu3 wrote:
I dunno why zero and baal are getting all serious I beat both of those button mashers.

SF button mashers? Wow SuperBuu, that takes balls to say. That is the most insulting thing you can call SF (or any fighting game in general) ever.
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PostSubject: Re: Street Fighter V   Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:11 am

MS's response to this is sony might have this but we prefer to have first party games in our genres, so we'd rather have killer instinct.

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PostSubject: Re: Street Fighter V   Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:31 pm

Superbuu3 wrote:
I dunno why zero and baal are getting all serious I beat both of those button mashers.

I used to suck so bad back in those days. I at least know how to play the game now, to the point where I can win ranked matches consistently with Ken and Cody in SSFIV.
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