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 RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)

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SimianWonder
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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:26 pm

Fencer kicks so much arse. Twin Vibro Hammers is like the nearest thing to actually being Thor.
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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:05 am

God damn you Simian. Going offline as soon as I invite you to play.

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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:57 am

Sorry, got out of bed at 5am as it was too bloody hot to sleep, got to 7am and started to feel sleepy again, so went back to bed. Should be up for some online play later, just got to find my Bluetooth mic again. Out of interest, what level weapons are you guys using? My stuff feels plenty powerful for where I am in single player, but don't want to feel horribly outgunned!
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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:27 am

mines just turned up now but i gotta go to a wedding so ill be on later to try it out
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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:20 am

Just did a few levels on Inferno. One of the best things about the Fencer is that he's whatever you make him; he can spam lock-on missiles from a whole level away, can rain down mortar fire from equally as far, can rip up the mid-range with cannons and gattling guns, or get up close and personal with Vibro Hammers, Swords, Axes, blades etc. Anyway, tried Inferno and died horribly - unlike Insect Armageddon, enemies don't seem to have massively more health, but they do hit a hell of a lot harder and have earlier access to their full move repertoire, ie the very first level will see vanilla ants spitting acid, biting players and even charging through you, something they simply don't do on Normal - so respecced for long-range barrage and got through the first half dozen offline levels without too much trouble.

One of my weapons unlocks was a "Vulcan hammer", a fire-breathing melee weapon that starts off dealing a basic 900 damage but can be charged to inflict 9000 damage. Yes, nine thousand damage. That's enough to one-shot everything I've yet encountered. It's bloody good fun walking up to a Hector's feet and hitting his ankle so hard he blows up.

I can't wait to see what goodies I can unlock later on.
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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:12 pm

Online has weapon and armour locks, so depending on the mission and difficulty you can only use weapons up to a certain level and have a certain amount of health. So we'll all be pretty equal.

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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:50 pm

Firstly if he's fun great, keep playing him but...

Fencer is objectively the worst class in the game.  You can't power level online, so using OP weapons is simply not an option he is also weaker than the Pale Wing (the best class in the game).  Honestly you're gonna hurt yourself more grinding out powerful weapons.  If you needed to rely on power to clear the crowds, you're going to get swarmed hardcore unless everyone is constnatly watching your back.

There's a reason the game outright states he's not an advisable class to use for beginners.  His weapons have stupidly slow fire rate and big reload times, the stats on a bunch of guns are wrong which means they fire considerably slower then the game says, this means his DPS is way lower.  His mobility is poor unless you without cancelling, which uses up weapon slots.  Oh and those weapons with huge damage one shot your team mates.  There's a couple of conceivable tactics with him but it doesn't really do anything other than make him adequate, while the other characters are downright awesome.  You will be spending most of your time running, and you will need to change your weapon loadout for every mission.  This game is by far the hardest EDF game to date, although GDF was debatedly harder.

He'd also 'seem' powerful as you're playing from insect armageddon where everyone was piss weak as they were characters from a different continuity.  The Ranger has been in 5 main series EDF games made by sandlot and the pale wing 3 out of the 5 (due to absence in the 360 version of edf 2017) the classes are considerably more refined and have even received weapon buffs from the previous game.

The other thing to keep in mind is there is no levelling system in the game so if your character isn't awesome right out of the box, he basically won't be very good.  I dunno if you went on inferno as you felt underpowered, but if you needed that really should tell you how useless he is. Post mission 50 seriously you'll realise how crap he is.  You will also notice he doesn't get improved versions of good weapon at spaces of abou 20-40 levels which means at the end of the normal campaign where level lock is still around 20 i was using a level 6 and level 10 weapon, as they were the best.

Low power, short range with a ROF of 1/sec is crap, then he has long range weapons such as missile launchers with slow rockets which will kill your team mates as the missiles can end up literally anywhere even homing on to dead bodies.  He also doesn't have an actual rocket launcher, mortars with arcing shots are pretty temperemental when you are shooting things 1-2km away oh and also his weapons don't state the blast radius on half of them so good luck not killing NPCs and team mates.

P.S. sorry i had to say that especially after you said that wing diver (pale wing) was the same as the jet rider in insect armageddon, they are so insanely different I don't get how you made that comparison. Also i've yet to play the wing diver in this i was saving it for online, but moose's comments compared to his damage output vs fencer said a lot.

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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:24 pm

I just tried the Fencer out a little bit. Did the first two missions on Easy, Normal and Hard. Best tactic I found was Blasthole Spear and Vibrohammer. You can boost cancel with the Spear, it's just not as fast. But it's a close range weapon and pretty strong so using that to boost around swarms seems like the best option, because you'll be hitting stuff all the time. Vibrohammer is just to keep things from getting too close. You can charge the attack while doing everything else so just always have your finger on the button. Probably very dangerous for teammates though. I know I got hit by Buu's hammer a lot.

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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:29 pm

A_Nonny_Moose wrote:
I just tried the Fencer out a little bit. Did the first two missions on Easy, Normal and Hard. Best tactic I found was Blasthole Spear and Vibrohammer. You can boost cancel with the Spear, it's just not as fast. But it's a close range weapon and pretty strong so using that to boost around swarms seems like the best option, because you'll be hitting stuff all the time. Vibrohammer is just to keep things from getting too close. You can charge the attack while doing everything else so just always have your finger on the button. Probably very dangerous for teammates though. I know I got hit by Buu's hammer a lot.

Fencer seems amazing in the first few missions as the enemies don't hit hard or have rapid fire rate.  If you didn't notice i spent 90% of the time running on the later missions.  spaceships which usually seem relatively week rip through his armour like crazy if he tries to use any of his powerful wepons as he has stagger.  That isn't helped by having to carry a melee weapon to dash around switch out to then shoot them and if you're going for carriers the stagger is insane on his weapons which just outright leaves you prone.

That said it was manageable until we got to the point past mission 50 where he has no good weapons he can use at that point.  My usable weapons were generally weaker then yours his one or two good weapons are great and it does speak volumes that they are still useful later in the game, but ultimately that also means he just doesn't have any good weapons.  Where at least the ranger and pale wing yu will get to try out new weapons each mission.

Oh yeah and you need foresight with the fencer.  If you don't know whats in the mission you're pretty fucked he has no useful for every situation loadout.  With four weapon slots thats piss poor.  I'll probably enjoy him again when we're on hard difficulty for the first half of the game as those enemies are weak and easy to kill.  A lot of people apparently just give up on playing inferno with him.

EDIT: oh yeah using vibro hammer killed moose, using missile launcher killed moose, and the mortar though a great weapon if used on ground troops will defintiely kill your team mates.

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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:38 pm

Oh and buu, the way you use the javelins is to have two of them. Then the rate of fire is 20 per second. Firing just one of them is very slow, but if you fire both at the same time it's super fast, and mid-range swarms can a lot of damage. Still hard to aim though.

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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:46 pm

A_Nonny_Moose wrote:
Oh and buu, the way you use the javelins is to have two of them. Then the rate of fire is 20 per second. Firing just one of them is very slow, but if you fire both at the same time it's super fast, and mid-range swarms can a lot of damage. Still hard to aim though.
Thanks for the tip.  I never would've equipped two though as that would be a really bad use of one of my loadouts. I'm holding out for one that shoots a larger cluster more like a burst or a shotgun as i would compensate the dodgy aim system.  That would be considerably more useful.  I'm sure there will be one.

EDIT: Also don't weapon farm too much moose its gonne be dull as fuck for TTB if when he gets on your airstrikes etc clear out half the map. Even if there is a weapon limit those things are extremely overrpowered even the lower level versions.

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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:51 pm

You mean for the Air Raider? I don't think I'll be using the air strikes that much anyway.

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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:13 pm

A_Nonny_Moose wrote:
You mean for the Air Raider? I don't think I'll be using the air strikes that much anyway.
Yeah I've got no clue what other stuff he's got outside of his initial loadout.

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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:44 am

Superbuu3 wrote:
Firstly if he's fun great, keep playing him but...

I'll use him to get me through Normal. He is great fun.

Quote :
P.S. sorry i had to say that especially after you said that wing diver (pale wing) was the same as the jet rider in insect armageddon, they are so insanely different I don't get how you made that comparison.  Also i've yet to play the wing diver in this i was saving it for online, but moose's comments compared to his damage output vs fencer said a lot.

The clue was in the text; tried the female Wing-Soldier and it was amusing but a little too much like Jet in IA in that early doors she can't stay airborne very long and most of her weapons also drain the flying meter.

It's not that she's the same, I just said she can't stay airborne very long in the early game. Just like IA's Jet.
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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:36 am

Oh, and granted my play time with the class was only an hour or so, but Wing Diver isn't head and shoulders above Fencer. She may have a lot of potential, but she's not without her own problems. Firstly, her health/armour pool is very low. Even on Normal she can only withstand a few solid hits before death, and Hardest/Inferno are OHKOs. Secondly, she doesn't really have anything with range. Even her sniper rifles only have 3-400 metre range, which is simply not enough on larger stages. She also doesn't seem to have anything that can lock on from distance and just get on with killing its target. At least not yet. I know that's not her raison d'etre, but the only homing weapon I've got so far is so slow you can literally fire it and then boost past the shot, though I forget the name of the weapon. Thirdly, a lot of her weaponry can harm her. Homing shots come out of the gun at weird angles (though the description does warn of this) which can strike the floor / walls and insta-kill her, the reflector lasers are handy in interior areas but again can easily bounce back and kill her.

On the plus side, her speed and aerial ability do make battlefields feel a lot more three dimensional and makes kiting tactics a lot more feasible.
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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:53 pm

Anyone bought the season pass? It's under a tenner and two of the DLC packs are seven quid each so seems like a no brainer.
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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:33 pm

i think buu said he was gonna buy it but only after he's finished the game
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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:24 pm

Yeah no point in getting the season pass until you finish the campaign. I can't see any reason not too buy it though.

SimianWonder wrote:
Oh, and granted my play time with the class was only an hour or so, but Wing Diver isn't head and shoulders above Fencer.  She may have a lot of potential, but she's not without her own problems.  Firstly, her health/armour pool is very low.  Even on Normal she can only withstand a few solid hits before death, and Hardest/Inferno are OHKOs.  Secondly, she doesn't really have anything  with range.  Even her sniper rifles only have 3-400 metre range, which is simply not enough on larger stages.  She also doesn't seem to have anything that can lock on from distance and just get on with killing its target.  At least not yet.  I know that's not her raison d'etre, but the only homing weapon I've got so far is so slow you can literally fire it and then boost past the shot, though I forget the name of the weapon.  Thirdly, a lot of her weaponry can harm her.  Homing shots come out of the gun at weird angles (though the description does warn of this) which can strike the floor / walls and insta-kill her, the reflector lasers are handy in interior areas but again can easily bounce back and kill her.  

On the plus side, her speed and aerial ability do make battlefields feel a lot more three dimensional and makes kiting tactics a lot more feasible.

Moose point out the flaws in this post, you know the wing diver best.


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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:38 pm

Superbuu3 wrote:
Moose point out the flaws in this post, you know the wing diver best.

I'm fully expecting someone to counter pretty much everything with "you get something like that later." Which would be fine, at least I know she's worth persevering with. Maybe building up her armour will take a while though, otherwise she's in danger of being a glass cannon.
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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:05 pm

SimianWonder wrote:
Superbuu3 wrote:
Moose point out the flaws in this post, you know the wing diver best.

I'm fully expecting someone to counter pretty much everything with "you get something like that later."  Which would be fine, at least I know she's worth persevering with.  Maybe building up her armour will take a while though, otherwise she's in danger of being a glass cannon.

OK i'm gonna have to step in here because Moose pulled a dick move earlier trying to be diplomatic and not harsh. Its gonna hurt your longer terms gameplay.

Fencer Vs Wing Diver:

1. Wing Diver is a glass cannon hence the highest damage out put.
2. Characters don't level therefore your comments on not being able to boost effectively at low levels equals inexperience at the game and the game system, you've propogated this by using high level weapons and getting a mind set that getting hit is inevitable (its not for any class), if you got hit you positioned yourself wrong)
3. Homing weapons are not a staple of the game, the slow missiles you mentioned are a general thing i'm not sure what to make of this unless you been grinding weapons on high levels excessively level 1-20 weapons do not include anything that doesn't do exactly what you said for fencer so no clue how you're ocmparing this to wing diver.
4. Close range combat is the wing divers specialty, she gets some good snipers later to but f that, i'd rather dive into the action face first and eliminate a horder of monsters then use missile launchers (also by commenting on homing weapons like this you're making it sound like you're using the fencer long range, which is making him sound like he can't fulfill his actual role)
5. Moose has barely used the Fencer and he grinds the game hardcore, so I'm gonna outright say he doesn't know how to play the class at all. Seeing as what use is that mentality when you have to beat inferno if you needed to grind weapons on inferno to get through the lower difficulties... He's pretty much made me think he sucks now. I honestly prefer playing solo then playing with people who had to grind. The later stages even on normal will deplete armour of around 500 in about 2 seconds.
6. People literally give up with the fencer look at completion percentages of the game with the fencer class even on normal...
http://psnprofiles.com/trophies/2432-EarthDefenseForce-2025

I'll just end on my enthusiasm for the fencer class was extremely high out of all of us i've played the most EDF games (that doesn't mean i'm the best and i won't claim to be either), but there's a huge difference playing different classes against the different enemy types. Whereas its been outright stated that the other characters can imporve weapons drastically to be good, you can't change a characters base performance. This means Ranger and Wing Diver will become as strong and eventually stronger then fencer due to weapons. Fencers inadequecies will make him in fact worse later on.

Using glitches and in game exploits do not compensate for a character class being poor, using 4 weapons is meant to be a fencer strength hence changing weapon loadout to cater for exploits isn't exactly helping the situation. Also as I mentioned before even with 4 weapons he doesn't have a single loadout at least when you are not you know using OPed weapons for your difficulty that works for all missions. Seriously if anyone is going to comment further i'm up for discussion, but don't use I used this weapon from hard/inferno difficulty to justify why he plays decently, no ones completed this on normal yet, so I know that didn't come about without abusing the offline game system not restricting weapons.

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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:21 pm

Superbuu3 wrote:
OK i'm gonna have to step in here because Moose pulled a dick move earlier trying to be diplomatic and not harsh.  Its gonna hurt your longer terms gameplay.
 
Don't worry about being harsh.  If I'm wasting my time on a class that is useless end-game, then I'd rather know now and save myself the trouble.  Besides, isn't discussion about mutual interests the whole point of being on a forum?  Ezactly.
 
There are two main reasons I initially opted for Fencer; 1) He reminded of Battle, my favourite class from IA, and 2) the game text describes him as for advanced players.  Not that I'd call myself that, but the implication was that once you had him down, he'd be the best class.
 
Quote :
Fencer Vs Wing Diver:

1. Wing Diver is a glass cannon hence the highest damage out put.
 
Boo.  Hopefully I'll be able to build up enough of an armour pool to help that drawback, at least partially.  Have to work on my evasion too.
 
Quote :
2. Characters don't level therefore your comments on not being able to boost effectively at low levels equals inexperience at the game and the game system, you've propogated this by using high level weapons and getting a mind set that getting hit is inevitable (its not for any class), if you got hit you positioned yourself wrong)
 
I was assuming you'd level up in tiers, a la IA, but that's clearly not the case.  My initial judgement was made after completing the opening level with each class, so you'd be quite correct to assume inexperience with the game mechanics.  As for getting hit being inevitable, with the Fencer it pretty much is.  He's got a huge armour pool and a lot of his melee weapons allow for greatly reduced damage if he's hit whilst winding them up.  He's all about tanking hits and hitting back harder.  It's a completely different mind set to Wing Diver.
 
Quote :
3. Homing weapons are not a staple of the game, the slow missiles you mentioned are a general thing i'm not sure what to make of this unless you been grinding weapons on high levels excessively level 1-20 weapons do not include anything that doesn't do exactly what you said for fencer so no clue how you're ocmparing this to wing diver.
 
As mentioned in a previous post, I did a few missions of inferno and bagged some relatively high level gear (highest around 38 I think), one of which was "FG02 High Altitude Impact Missiles".  What a mouthful.  Anyway, you hold the fire button and the game targets up to ten enemies before firing.  The missiles launch straight up (so being behind buildings isn't a problem) then literally rain down on their targets.  I also have level 2-3 missiles that function in much the same way, though with fewer projectiles and I recall similar weapons in IA, so again was assuming that something similar would be available to Wing Diver, though not necessarily at my current levels.
 
So yes, basically, I am comparing higher level Fencer gear with lower level Wing Diver gear, even if it's only a matter of a few levels.  Unfair?  Yes, of course, but I can only make comparisons to weapons I have experience with.
 
Quote :
4. Close range combat is the wing divers specialty, she gets some good snipers later to but f that, i'd rather dive into the action face first and eliminate a horder of monsters then use missile launchers (also by commenting on homing weapons like this you're making it sound like you're using the fencer long range, which is making him sound like he can't fulfill his actual role)
 
As I flat-out stated in a previous post, Fencer can be whatever you want him to be.  Did I spam long-distance weaponry to get through bits of Inferno.? Too bloody right I did.  However, I also commented at the top of the previous page;
 
Twin Vibro Hammers is like the nearest thing to actually being Thor.
 
It doesn't take a genius to realise the implication there; I was up close and getting my smash on.
 
Quote :
5. Moose has barely used the Fencer and he grinds the game hardcore, so I'm gonna outright say he doesn't know how to play the class at all.  Seeing as what use is that mentality when you have to beat inferno if you needed to grind weapons on inferno to get through the lower difficulties...  He's pretty much made me think he sucks now.  I honestly prefer playing solo then playing with people who had to grind.
 
 
I don't have a problem with how other people choose to play their games.  Of course, covering your own inadequacies by virtue of possessing simply overwhelming firepower is going to get you shown up sooner or later.  
 
Quote :
The later stages even on normal will deplete armour of around 500 in about 2 seconds.
 
I'm still only in the low thirties in terms of offline progress and nothing yet has caused that kind of damage to my Fencer.  I'm not arguing that it won't, simply that I haven't yet seen it do so.  Again, everything I've said, am saying and have yet to say is based solely on my own experience (or lack of) with the game.  If you've seen things that I haven't by virtue of extra progress, then I'm already at a disadvantage as you have that extra experience to call on.
 
Quote :
People literally give up with the fencer look at completion percentages of the game with the fencer class even on normal...
http://psnprofiles.com/trophies/2432-EarthDefenseForce-2025
 
Again, what other people do or how they choose to play the game doesn't have much relevance on how I'll play mine, and I'm not surprised that people give up on what even the game itself calls the "class for advanced players".  People try it, don't get on with him and move onto another class.
 
Quote :
Using glitches and in game exploits do not compensate for a character class being poor, using 4 weapons is meant to be a fencer strength hence changing weapon loadout to cater for exploits isn't exactly helping the situation.  Also as I mentioned before even with 4 weapons he doesn't have a single loadout at least when you are not you know using OPed weapons for your difficulty that works for all missions.  Seriously if anyone is going to comment further i'm up for discussion, but don't use I used this weapon from hard/inferno difficulty to justify why he plays decently, no ones completed this on normal yet, so I know that didn't come about without abusing the offline game system not restricting weapons.
 
Not really sure what your point was here.  Glitches and exploits?  Who has used those?  And no class I've yet encountered has a single ideal loadout for all missions.  That's surely the whole point of the massively varied arsenal isn't it, that you change to suit the mission?
 
I'm not arguing for Fencer being decent on the back of OP weapons; to suggest he needs them to be considered "decent" is absurd.  So far I've more or less destroyed Normal difficulty with him, but it's the early part of the game and I'm a relatively experienced gamer.  Regardless of the class I'd expect to have made similar progress.
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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:06 pm

The thing with the wing diver is the high mobility. I would say Buu died a lot more than I did when I was the Wing Diver and he was the Fencer. It's far easier to escape if you're in trouble. Close and mid range are what the Wing Diver's best areas.

-Close range you actually have a few options. Rapiers are great for certain enemies. You can wade into a swarm of red ants without fear if you have a strong rapier, and they can be great for underground levels if they cover the whole tunnel. Laser Lances are the big hitters for Wing Diver, best for taking out Hectors and bosses, but you have to get up close and personal.

-Mid range lasers or electroshock works well for swarms of anything. You can keep a relatively safe distance and shoot away without much worry. Electroshock has higher damage but lasers are a lot more energy efficient, so for flying swarms a laser might be better. Electroshock for ground. But you can get away with either.

-Particle cannons, as far as I can tell, are worthless. They don't have clips so they constantly drain energy, they have weird firing patterns, are terribly inaccurate while flying, and the damage has been reduced from 2017. I never use them.

-The homing weapons aren't great. You have to trade off some mobility for the homing weapons because they drain energy, so it's a choice between chasing down targets with a stronger weapon or using a weaker homing weapons and staying still. The first option is best. I mean if there's a lot of flying enemies you might want to try a homing weapon, but I found it much effective to just fly around with a mid range weapon. When Buu would get mobbed by spaceships or wasps I'd be alright flying through it all.

-Long range explosives are up to you. They're fun, and useful if it's a small mission with a lot of swarms or a nest you don't feel like being particularly accurate. Damage, range, and blast radius are all decent. But I don't use them much because of the high energy drain and other weapons have much more important uses.

-Snipers are varied, but fine. The LRSL snipers only have about 600m range, but the Thunder Snipers have around 2000m range. Useful in specific circumstances.

-Special weapons are a mixed bag, and this is where Wing Diver loadouts can become really fun and weird. Knowing when to use them is essential though, and most of the time another weapon will be more important.

-You don't level up. I haven't noticed any difference in fuel yet, so I assume that Wing Diver never becomes better at flying than she is at the start, but that's definitely enough.

The way the game works in terms of easy or advanced classes just seems to based on how much you need to change your loadout for each scenario. Ranger can take an assault rifle and rocket launcher in any mission and do well. With Wing Diver you need to consider range, because that's what all her weapons are based on. You can't really have a strong set up that covers close, mid, and long range. Fencer needs a different weapon for just about everything and lacks a strong, fast anti-air weapon from what I've seen. Air Raider... Well I suppose it just depends what other classes you're playing with.

Rather than being more "advanced", the classes just become more specialised for certain tasks, and I think in this game that's actually a bad thing.

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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:12 pm

The thing with the Battle class in IA is that he was just much a stronger, slower, Trooper class. And even then he was faster than the Fencer.

Also, armour gain is proportional. Wing Diver starts with the least health and will always have the least health if each class progresses together. Apparently, these are the health point values for one armour box pick-up for each class:

Fencer 0.58
Ranger/ Air Raider 0.464
Wingdiver 0.232

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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:43 pm

A_Nonny_Moose wrote:
Also, armour gain is proportional. Wing Diver starts with the least health and will always have the least health if each class progresses together. Apparently, these are the health point values for one armour box pick-up for each class:

Fencer 0.58
Ranger/ Air Raider 0.464
Wingdiver 0.232

That explains why my Fencer has 450 armour, my Wing Diver 160-odd!
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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:45 pm

@sim:

Essentially the fencer has double armour then the wing diver.  But you will get hit more then twice as much with him hence you can't compensate with his armour.  The first 50 missions in this game are a joke and i haven't played offline so i don't know if damage or enemy count differs.  I don't want to spoil anything for you this game is great hence I won't mention what does that kind of damage.

The exploits or glitches are what I was referring toto get the most out of him, i'll show you after you seem to get a better grasp.  I don't have any problem playing with Fencer when we coop, but I strongly advise you either learn to dodge or just be aware you will hav e to wait to be resurrected and us healing you will end with you having likely less than a quarter health while using up half of ours to pick you up.  Basically you'll drain the whole teams health if you can't avoid being hit.

The missile launcher you mentioned I love that.  But yeah I need to see you play before I can give you tips.  IA and 2025 were made by different developers for all intents and purposes your not a vet, you probably have enough experience to handle the air raider though.  Battle class was a way bigger tank then fencer and honestly he needs buffs from both characters to really be the best he could be.

I don't blame you for thinking advanced class meant biggest payoff, its blatently not the case.  If you think you're getting swarmed and feel a bit underpowered on normal pre mission 50, inferno post mission 50 is going to be hell.  The damage gradient enemies do basically means how much health you have as a fencer on normal at the beginning is considerably less than a fencer on inferno near end game, hence the you need to just avoid getting hit.  Also seriously the mobility of the enemies in this game gets insane later on.  You also won't be able to use that cool missile launcher online in normal and it will leave you feeling fragile.  You really need to learn what the problem of him being underpowered is to get the most out of him.  If you play with him online we can probably cover for you until you get the weapons you need though.

Also spiders on inferno, I remember on GDF which was the only one i genuinely had a inferno level character and even then he could be violated by spiders if enough webs connected.  This is going to be a huge pain in the ass with fencer.  I'm going to complete this on inferno with all characters though.

In terms of if he holds up i think you should bring him online with the weapon locks you'll see if he's dreadful or not.  I thought he was grat up to like mission 40 i think and didn't run into trouble till post 50, but then the game gets sooooooo much harder.

I'm hoping we all play diff classes when we play 4 player.  I mean I can't speak 100% as changes have been made for this game (wing dive is clearly buffed from 2017 though), which should hopefully tell us everything we need to know.  i'm gonna finish off normal now i've been trying to work out some cool builds for fencer if i get any pay off i'll let you know.

BTW tanking is simply not an option in this game.  Like don't even try to if you do that you'll basically get into really bad habits that will screw you over end game.  Be wary of tips on gamefaqs.  Most of the people on there's strategy for fencer is 'get good'.  It seems like they tolerate the inadequecies that stack up later and just consider beting the game with him a badge of honour. I'm gonna play inferno online with fencer so moose can play wing diver and kill everything lol.

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PostSubject: Re: RD united: EDF is now recruiting "Whats wrong troops you want to live forever?" (insect armageddon) (2017) (2025)   

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